Skins pull out the victory but it was nothing to write home about. The first half offensively was pathetic. Two sacks on the first drive with JC fumbling leading to a Bucs TD. We got nothing going at all in the first half. JC was terrible with the fumble and 2 INTs in the first half. We couldn't muster much of anything.
Fortunately, the defense kept us in the game and in the third quarter we got things going a little bit. JC looked better and hit Cooley over the middle for a TD and Moss along the sideline for a deep TD. Tagged on a FG to put up 16 points in the quarter. Still, it wasn't the kind of victory that answered any questions and we need a much better effort.
Was disappointed in JC. It was the first game this year that he just didn't look good. Still, a win is a win and I would rather win ugly than lose pretty.
On to the Panthers.
HAIL TO THE REDSKINS!!!
29 comments:
Here are my thoughts. The Redskins suck worse than I thought. I know a win is a win, but to have so much trouble again at home against another horrible team (just like the Rams) is pathetic. Especially one who is starting a rookie QB that may not have NFL-quality talent.
Aqib Talib looked like a pro bowler with his three interceptions. Funny, because I have never heard of him before.
Malcolm Kelly should be out of the lineup after his horrible play this week. He made little effort to stop the two interceptions that went his way. One of them looked like he slowed up and allowed the dude to catch it easily. Even if Zorn doesn't pull Kelly from the lineup, I doubt JC is going to have the confidence in Kelly to throw to him anyway. I guess they should give Devin a chance.
The football gods blessed the Redskins with a very favorable schedule. They get 0-3 Carolina - who will easily beat the Deadskins in Carolina and 0-4 KC at home - probably another tough Deadskin win. So they will be 3-3 before they face the tough part of their schedule.
Frankly, I don't see more than 3 wins in that last 10 opponents. They may beat Oakland and Dallas once, but the other 8 games look like losses to me. We'll see.
Oh yeah, I forgot to laugh about Carlos Rogers not catching that ball that hit him in his junk (at least that is what it looked like to me).
There are "Carlos Rogers couldn't catch . . ." jokes on the Post Insider blog today. My favorite one was
"Carlos Rogers couldn't catch a cold in a nude Siberian concentration camp."
That guy may very well have the worst hands in the NFL.
I'll start with my comments on the game, then get into my response to Robs's obligatory and expected 'Skins bashing.
That was a bad game. Campbell had the worst game of his career with three bad picks. The receivers couldn't get open. The line wasn't doing a particularly good job of run or pass blocking, especially early on. The D looked solid, but still wasn't making game changing plays that I was hoping for against a bad team. The result was a 10-0 halftime score that could have been worse. After D. Hall made the pick in the 3rd quarter, the started looking more formidable. We need game changing plays like that to give the team life. Unfortunately it happens too rarely.
The offense stinks. Portis has clearly lost a step. Compound that with the fact that the O-line is a mess and you've got a bad running game. Our receivers couldn't get open. Moss ended up with two catches. Kelly and Thomas had none. I don't remember seeing Randle El catch one either. I don't know how much of that is play calling, the receivers sucking, or Campbell not finding the open receiver. Any way you twist it though, the bottom line is the offense sucks.
I'm glad we won. I would have felt a lot worse today with a loss to another bad team. I'm looking at this objectively though. We have problems with the roster and the coaching. I think there's enough talent to be a bit more respectable (9-7 or 10-6ish), but we are not a "deep into the playoffs" team. Right now we're not even capable of ending up with a winning record this season the way we look.
I must say that I agree with Robs's overall assessment of the 'Skins. We suck. That is clear. What I know we differ on is the reason(s) why we suck. Robs thinks its an overall problem including a lack of talent on the team. I can agree that it is a systemic issue, starting with the owner and the "VP of Football Operations." I disagree, however, that there is a severe lack of talent. This team is as talented as any other average team out there. What we're not doing is scoring points. We haven't scored points since Zorn got here. 29 points is the most one of his teams has scored in a game. Zorn is 10-10 despite this glaring problem. If the scoringn average goes up by one TD per game, things could look a lot better. He needs to get his play calling straightened out. He also needs to stop being stubborn about his QB. I'm not saying JC is the problem, but he might be. I can't tell from where I sit if he's missing reads or not. If he is, Collins is more than capable of leading this team successfully.
The window of opportunity for this coach and this team is very close to closed. If Zorn can't get this figured out soon and get more points on the board, he's done...Actually, he's probably done anyway, but you know what I mean.
Largely agree with Deepie. Again, first half was a mess. JC was terrible. Not sure what the problem was.
I've heard of Aqib Talib. He seems to be a solid young corner.
I will agree on Carlos. He may very well have the worst hands in the NFL. That was a pick six that hit him right in the bread basket. I actually laughed when he dropped it because it's pretty funny how bad his hands are.
Disagree on Kelly giving up on the plays. The first pick was behind Kelly with the safety coming up to make the play. It was a bad call/read. The second, Kelly wasn't open. The CB had inside position and was in front and Kelly tried to make an acrobatic catch over top of the CB but he wasn't open. Talked to a friend who was at the game and he said that, I believe, Moss was open on the other side of the field.
As far as the gods blessing the Skins with the schedule, I don't care. We play who we play. We didn't make the schedule. If I remember correctly, this is what Robs said about the Bears when they have played easier teams.
I don't like the play. They clearly didn't answer any questions. Probably raised a few more. Still, my problem is still with the coaching. I do feel that Redskins come out flat with a lack of intensity and urgency. I think about Mike Singletary and what he has been able to accomplish in such a short amount of time in SF. SF has been bad for years but they are looking pretty formidable right now. Singletary is a no nonsense kind of guy. I don't think personnel has changed much from last year to this year but he maximizes play from the players he has. I watched a little of the SF/MN game and you could see how intense Singletary is and how disciplined the 49ers are trying to be. Saw a D lineman jump offsids and the player was very upset with his error. Many players on other teams don't care as much. You can see that Singletary's intensity has filtered down to his players and he has made a big difference.
Our coaching is not bringing that intensity nor are they utilizing the talent that we have with the schemes they set. I was glad to see Portis given opportunities to run other than just to the left. He ran right and up the middle and they even borrowed a play from the Lions where the WR was in motion and coming in for what looked like an end around but we handed to Portis up the gut. It's those types of things that can get things going a bit.
Disagree with Deeps in that the O line is a mess. It's not great. It's average at best. The first series, they looked ridiculous but after the first series, they only allowed one sack for the rest of the game and that one I put on JC for holding on to the ball too long. Again, Portis ran to both sides and up the middle and had his best game so I don't think that the O line was terrible.
Still, to me the biggest problem is coaching and schemes. Zorn himself questioned his own gameplan in the first half. He should have because it wasn't working. Skins need to be more aggressive in general.
We'll see what happens next week. It will be interesting to see what happens against the winless Panthers who will be at home and Delhomme who is battling questions about his starting job and the Panthers looking to get their first win. I keep looking for the Skins to do something that answers questions but at some point with their continued lack of production, you have to concede that they are what they are. I'm not there yet.
Let me be clear - I am not begrudging the fact that the Redskins play bad teams. I am just stating the fact that they are lucky to be doing so. If they were any good, they would cream at least a couple of these teams.
If they are 4-2 going up against Philly they will at least have some confidence. If they are 3-3 (as I expect), it is going to be a long, long home stretch.
I think it's hilarious how Zorney said that he didn't think about yanking Campbell at halftime. What more did he have to see? Collins must have had virtually no snaps during the week.
I think there is a general lack of morale on the sidelines when the offense looks so offensive. It's like throwing up in your month every few minutes during the first half. The second half was clearly better, although that pick was actually JC's fault, where the two in the first half were because Malcolm "Timid Giant" Kelly can't seem to run his route properly and finish plays. Sure handed Carlos Rogers didn't make anything better. I heard some discussion today that Landry shouldn't be playing free safety (he should be at his natural strong safety position) and there was further blame on the coaches. It seems that our corners are so bad that they are only effective in zone match ups. The Skins equation of a decent run stopping line, one great LB, one average and one below average LB, won't allow it to pressure the QB with any regularity. This defense gets coverage sacks only, which is sad.
I overstated my displeasure with the O-line earlier when I said it's a mess. It's not that bad. In reality, the pass protection has been decent, but we're not a strong running team right now. Portis may be a step slower, but he's still capable of consistently pounding out good games. He won't, however, with this line because of weaknesses on the right side...Should have drafted Michael Oher when we had the chance.
The O will never reach its potential without a strong O-line. It is the biggest weakness on the offense. Unfortunately, we don't have a QB or receivers who can overcome that weakness to a degree at which the weaknesses can be overlooked...which is what Vinny's been doing.
Deeps, here is an observation. You need to "nut up or shut up."
If you think the Deadskins O-line is a mess and you state that, then in the face of a little prodding by JKSD you shouldn't change your mind.
If you don't think the Deadskins O-line is a mess, then don't write it.
I happen to agree with your original position that the O-line sucks and am firmly of the mind that as the year progresses and Samuels goes down with an injury (he is old and brittle) it will be even worse.
But, then you changed your mind and seem to think the O-line is not so bad. I suppose JKSD agrees with you.
I think I read that "nut up or shut up" is in Zombieland - I just wanted to use the term because it seems funny to me.
Glad you were able to use the "nut up or shut up." Never heard it before.
The O line has not been that bad. They have not given up an exceptional amount of sacks. We have had success running to the right. Again, they aren't great but they have held up and are not the problem right now. The media has been all over the line all offseason/preseason but they have held up so far. There are much worse lines out there right now. Robs likes to fan the fire but they have not been bad.
Scott doesn't no shat from shinola. Landry was a FS in college that is the position he played. He is fine. He really hasn't had much of an impact because of opportunities. I agree that he looks for the big hit when he should just focus on making the hit but I'm fine with him.
Scott will complain about the defense but outside of the Lion game, they have been solid. I agree that we need to get more pressure but I put that on the coaches to blitz some. Blache said last week he was going to be more of a maverick but he said yesterday that he didn't change the defense this week, it's just that guy's played better. I think we need to put pressure every now and then.
Again, I put most of the issues we have on the coaching/schemes. Look at my discussion on Singletary and how a coach can impact the out put of his team.
BTW - Robs, you said it was hilarious for the Skins to try and run right. Of the 14 run plays Zorn called against Detroit, six went to the right side for 38 yards; one went up the middle for two yards; and seven went left, gaining only eight yards.
We just need to mix it up. We did a better job of that yesterday in the running game and Portis had his best game this season.
Keep running right and see what happens. I already know what will happen, but if you want to find out the hard way be my guest.
When the Deadskins finish 6-10 or worse, I'll expect you to compliment me on being right.
We had success running right against the Bucs. I don't know if you even understand what I am saying. I'm not saying that it is the greatest O line but it hasn't been bad. Explain to me how they have been bad, Mr. Statistician.
I'm also not saying that we are going to run the table. We have issues. I have said that we aren't that good right now but if coaching/schemes improve, we have the personnel to be pretty good. Right now, I wouldn't be surprised if we did finish 6-10 so why would I compliment you? However, if coaching improves, we can be decent.
They are playing the worst teams in the NFL and giving up a fair number of sacks, QB hurries, and knockdowns. They are also not able to effectively run the ball week in and week out.
On top of that, JC pretty much gets hit and fumbles the ball at least once per game. At least twice this has directly to opponent TDs.
They have a weak right side of the line that is recognized as such - read Jason Reid's piece from last week. It talks about how in practice Heyer is horrible.
The left side of the line has an aging Samuels who will get injured before the season is done. If that happens, I suppose they will move Dockery to tackle and then put someone else - who likely sucks - in at left tackle. Probably they will also sign brittle Pete Kendall and pray that they don't have another injury.
The O-line STINKS. This will become patently obviously when they play tougher games against the Cowboys, Philly, and again against the Giants. Frankly, Carolina is going to have a field day with their pass rush this week.
When the O-line problems become even more apparent, you can add that to the reality that Malcolm Kelly stinks and that the Redskins suck overall all of which I told you weeks ago.
Everyone who follows football and their mother knew that the Redskins O-line needed to be fixed after last year, but they didn't do nearly enough. Part of it was that they didn't have money and they could not afford the $9.6M cap hit to get rid of the brittle Thomas. It was bad enough taking the $9M hit to cut Jansen (who they could probably use right now - which is sad to say).
In addition, when the Bears win the very tough NFC North (contrary to what you claimed about the North being one of the worst divisions in football), their O-line and receiving corps end up being good, I will again show that I was right.
I'm not telling you to believe me now. I'm not telling you to compliment me now. Let's wait and see. But, I will be right. Count on it.
The only one of us that gets prodded around here, Robs, is you when you're celebrating a Bears win with your thumb. I said it's a mess and I retract the statement because if you didn't notice, Portis ran for nearly 100 yards and Campbell had time in the pocket. Aside from the first forgettable drive, there was little pressure from the Yuckaneers.
I think the line can play better, but the fact is, pass protection has been good in all four games. The running game is struggling in part due to a questionable game plan for the running game. I'm not saying the line is fine. I still would have picked Michael Oher in the draft to address the RT spot with a bruiser of a tackle.
No question they needed to do more in the draft and/or free agency to help their line. There were cap issues, but instead of wasting so much money on a fat and out of shape Haynesworth they would have been better off getting 2-3 linemen.
I don't see any reason to believe the line was good yesterday against a very weak Bucs team. Maybe they were better than I think. Whatever. We'll see how the line holds up when they play the better defensive teams in coming weeks.
Robs...If I recall, you played WR in high school. Maybe you understand this better than I do. There was one play where the Fox guys showed both of the Bucs CBs allow Moss and Kelly to get passed them. Despite clearly going up against a zone, both Moss and Kelly continued their routes to specific locations instead of finding the soft spot in the zone. They both were blanketed and I believe Campbell had to throw it away.
You know what that is? That is bad coaching. It indicates a fundemental flaw in the passing game. If Zorn is so intent on making sure the receivers are going to a specific spot despite what the D is giving them, the offense is flawed.
I'm not going to fault Kelly or Thomas yet. He and Thomas may not be getting open, but if this is how they're being coached, I can see why their growth is being stunted. It also goes a long way to explain why this O can only muster 14 points a game.
Long story short...There is enough talent on the team to be better than what it is. There are bigger problems with the game plan and coaching that are contributing to the terrible offensive output.
You say it is a coaching issue, I say it is a failure on the part of the players to recognize coverage. They are in their second years and should know better.
It is only a coaching mistake if Zorn continues to play these clowns. Accountability is on the coaches. For example, Tomlin got fed up with mental errors and dropped plasses by second year high draft choice Limas Sweed and benched him this week. That is good coaching.
You still didn't explain how poorly the line is playing, Mr. Statistician.
You didn't even see the game. I'm glad you can comment on their play w/o even watching.
Again, they are not a stellar group of guys but they have been fine so far.
You want to see a bad line? Look at the Packers. They suck.
I don't care what the articles say and the media frenzy in the offseason was saying. We all knew it was a concern and sure I wish we were better but so far the play has not been bad. If you can prove to me statistically how poor they have been are explain in any other terms how poor they have played, than please share.
Frankly, you should look at your Bears. You think that the secondary has played well. They are one of the worst passing defenses in the league. Bowman looked lost out there. Vasher has suffered injuries and was bad in preseason/camp and has regressed so far that he has lost his job. He might actually get it back given how poorly Bowman played. Still, I'm glad that you are willing to overlook those issues and believe the Bears are an elite team and have been for years and should be mentioned in the same breath as the Colts, Pats, and Steelers.
You are more concerned with the Redskins and keeping them down than looking at Bears and their issues.
I don't know what you are talking about.
OK, so you believe the Deadskins O-line is fine. They are playing the worst teams in the NFL and they give up sacks, hurries, knockdowns. They cannot run the ball effectively. They throw interceptions and their QB fumbles when he gets hit so often (he is leading the NFL in fumbles). But I guess none of that indicates the O-line is terrible. FINE!!!!!
Read a little about your team's O-line if you really want to understand what is happening - Jason Reid did a story last week. I don't really give a crap what you believe. THEY SUCK AND IT IS PATENTLY OBVIOUS. As the season wears on it will only get worse - that is when they play teams with bigger, stronger defensive lines.
I know plenty about the Bears. The Bears O-line had a huge day against the Lions and graded out well. If they continue to gel, it will bode well in the latter part of the year.
As for the secondary, the Vikings gave up 384 yards to Rodgers last night, the Bears secondary didn't. The Packers gave up a lot of yards to Favre - it happens in games. The Vikings allowed Stafford to have a pretty good day passing also. So what?
You don't know the Bears secondary. You read 1 article (maybe) and saw 1 game and you seem to think you know more than me and/or that you are an expert on the Bears secondary. The Bears moved Tillman on CJ in the second half and shut him down. The Bears secondary had no trouble stopping the Lions - unlike the Redskins
Yeah, I am keeping the Redskins down. My comments are what is holding the Redskins back. Funny.
AGAIN, I'm not saying the Redskins O line is stellar but thus far, they have held up pretty well -- particularly how they faired at the end of last season. Yes, I wish they were better but they have been better than many of the lines out there SO FAR. That may change during the season.
I know they put Tillman on CJ that was also when CJ got hurt and Stafford got hurt so it's a little easier to cover him then. Tillman is decent but otherwise the secondary is a big question mark. Again, Mr. Statistician, the Bear pass defense is one of the worst in the league. I have watched one and a half of their 4 games this year and watched their preseason game against the Bills. They have not impressed. Vasher in particular is not that good. Whether it is injuries or lack of confidence or what, it is clear he is not the player he was. It is well documented. Go look at the Chicago Tribune and search on Vasher and I'm sure you will find articles on him not being the guy he was. If you don't believe me, I will find them for you.
I'm glad you like your secondary and think they are solid. If not for the Bear pass rush, that secondary would be even more horrendous than they are.
BTW - I should have said you are more interested in putting the Redskins down as opposed to keeping them down. Pardon me for misspeaking.
What line is worse? The Deadskins are playing literally the worst teams in the NFL.
So you read (maybe) two articles, watched the Packers game, and 1-2 drives in a preseason game. You are full of sh*t about watching another half game. What half game are you talking about? Yet you are the expert - RIGHT!!!
You didn't even see the Bears game so you don't know what you are talking about. Culpepper played the last 6:41 on the game. CJ and Stafford were in all through the third and more than half of the fourth quarter. THEY WERE SHUT DOWN. CJ definitely could have played and I believe he was still on the field at the end. If he sat, it was only because the game was over at that point.
Tell me, Mr. Expert, what is your professional analysis of the Green Bay Packers secondary? How about the Minnesota secondary? You have watched more Packers games and just as much of Minnesota. Both those secondaries got torched last night.
Sorry, I am not an expert on every O line in the league. Are you? We didn't set our schedule. We play the teams that we are scheduled to play. If they are bad, so be it. AGAIN, I'm not saying that this line is awesome. However, they were terrible in the second half of last season. It was an issue that everyone talked about in the offseason/camp/preseason. Sure, I wish we had brought in an ensemble of studs to anchor the offense. We didn't. They are what they are. What I am saying is that they have not been as bad as people thought. Statistically, they are not bad. You may be right when you say that the line may struggle with injuries or when we play stronger teams or as the season wears on. We don't know that yet. We cannot predict the future. What we can do is evaluate what has taken place and thus far, they have not been bad. They haven't been stellar but they have not been the reason for the sputtering offense.
When did I say I was an expert? So I either have to be an expert or someone with absolutely no knowledge at all? That's like talking to my 6 year old. I watched the GB game, I watched a good portion of the Seahawk game on the replay of the NFL network. True, they don't always show every play but you get an idea of the game. I watched much of the Bills preseason game because I think it was a nationally televised game on a Thursday night and I was excited just to watch any football at that point. You don't need to be a fan of Chicago to know that Vasher was having issues. If you go to the Tribune and search on Vasher, you will find plenty of articles discussing his drop in play. Lovie knows he is struggling and benched him. He is not the player he once was.
Campbell's fumble was a direct result of the right side of the line collapsing back into him almost immediately. Look, I don't really give a crap whether you think the line sucks, is OK, is fine, whatever. I think it is pretty obvious that the line sucks but we'll see as the season wears on.
I'll make two points about the Bears secondary - (1) it has performed fine to date and it has depth at safeties and corner so that it is not a concern going forward. (2) when you look out across the NFL, I don't see any reason to think the Bears secondary is a problem.
That said, I am confident that I have watched more and read more about Malcolm Kelly than you have about the Bears secondary. Yet, for weeks you bitched and moaned that I needed to give him a chance and that I was drawing premature conclusions. I'm pretty sure you also claimed you just didn't do that kind of thing. Well, here are you are doing it.
Robs...That was one play where a guy starting his second game in his career got run-over by the DT. Reinhart played a pretty solid game after that. The only other fumble Campbell has lost was when Umenyora stripped him of the ball when he should have stepped up in the pocket. The protection was actually really good on that play.
I believe all of Campbell's other fumbles have been where he's bobbled a snap. None have been lost. In fact, there have been at least a few where the ball bounced back up to him and the play continued.
Your assessment of the line is inconsistent with what just about everyone is saying. The line as it stands is ok...not great...but it has been steady. The problem is depth and the lack of a real bruiser at RT.
I'm not sure who "everyone" is that you are referring to.
I think it is pretty clear that the O-line is terrible, but if you want to hold out hope that is up to you.
There you go again with the one play thing.
If that's what you like doing, then I assume you think Vasher sucks because he got beat badly in the game winning TD throw from Rodgers to Jennings. It's the same thing.
The Bear pass defense is one of the worst in the league but if you say they are okay, good for you, Mr. Statistician.
Like I said before, I've seen more Kelly/Redskins and read more about him than you have on the Bears/Vasher.
Kelly made little effort to prevent one of JC's interceptions this past week. He slowed up and then mistimed his jump which allowed Talib to intercept the ball. It was a pathetic display.
I am fine with the Bears secondary.
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