SO disappointing. I know Robs will blame Snyder but he will blame Snyder for the power going out during a thunder storm.
Here are my general thoughts:
1. All in all, defense was very good except for two plays. The first is on Carolina's first TD, Orakpo cannot cover. He was WAY off of the TE. It goes back to why is Orakpo a LB and covering. It is unnatural for him and it doesn't make sense.
The second was the final end around on a 3rd and 8. Where is the contain?! Delhomme is no athlete and has no business getting that first down.
Still, as mentioned, all in all we can't complain about the defensive effort. They put consistent pressure on Delhomme. They got turnovers and put our offense in a position to score points.
2. Special Teams SUCKED! Two big plays that led to their two TDs. After Portis scored on the 1 yard run, we give up a big KO return. That sucked.
The biggest issue is as we all know the punt that went off of Westbrook's leg. Just a big gaffe that proved to lead to the winning TD. That was a killer.
3. Offense SUCKED! Less than 200 yards offense. We couldn't move the ball. Few things in particular really bothered me.
- So we know Thomas is out. Rinehart started last week and seemed to do pretty well. I thought Thomas' job was b/t Rinehart and Will Montgomery so who was in there yesterday? Mike Williams. What the F is he doing there? He practiced at tackle in preseason. What happened to Rinehart and/or Montgomery? Didn't understand Williams being in there and he was less than spectacular.
- Samuels got his neck jammed and left with a stinger. He probably could have come back but still you have to be careful with any type of neck injury. Who the F is D'Anthony Batiste? I'm not sure I have even heard of this guy. He sucked!
Okay, so the O line was banged up and replaced with guys that I didn't know or didn't understand why they were in there.
- Another thing that really bothered me is Mike Sellers. So Sellers and Portis got into it earlier this week when Portis was bothered by Sellers block on the 4th and goal in Detroit. They showed the replay yesterday and Coach Billick, who was announcing the game, showed how Sellers just straddled down the line and didn't do any kind of blocking at all and said Portis had full right to be angry about that. I'm not saying that Portis should have asked that Sellers get pulled and I do believe the two are friends but looking at that effort from Sellers, he had full right to be angry. The reason why I bring this up is on the safety, Sellers again just straddled down the line. As a FB in short yardage situations, it is your job to charge full speed ahead and help create the lane for the RB. The RB is to follow the FB and if Sellers is just dancing down the line, he isn't doing anything. That was ridiculous.
- On the 4th and 3 where the Skins went for it, JC just stared down I think it was Thomas and the ball was batted down. JC cannot just stare that play/WR down.
- With the O line being decimated, why are we running play action? Every time we did that, JC would turn around and someone would be right in his face. Instead of doing play action, concede the fake and get in shotgun or at least have the RB just serve as an extra blocker to help JC out on passes instead of acting as a decoy. From a coaching standpoint, you know the O line is banged up and depleted so give them help.
- Coaching still SUCKED. I was fine with the defense and their coaching but offense just too tame. Again, need to throw mid range and deeper balls. We threw one deep pass and it should have been caught by Devin Thomas. It would have been a good catch but one that should have been made. Take more shots downfield. I'm not sure if this is JC or playcalling or what but take the shots. Also, take shots on mid range passes. Offensively we just are not meeting our potential. Players and coaches keep talking about leaving points on the field and execution and that they all believe in the scheme and I believe them saying that but I'm tired of listening to it. If it is such a good scheme, why is it not working?
Phillip Daniels apparently tore his bicep. Can we please try Orakpo at DE? I know that the concern is that he is too light to play against the run but give the guy a chance.
The season is very close to being over at this point. This is the first game that really got me down because it started out so good and is one that we should have won. It would have been a good win. I don't think the Panthers are as bad as their record. They were 12-4 last year. We should have won it. I'm so disappointed with the offense and not being able to get anything really going.
The one thing that seems for certain is that barring a miracle, Zorn will be fired. It's just not happening. I actually don't think I will mind his firing. The tough part is if JC goes. I still like him but I think the two are tied together and they may end up both going. The thing is if JC goes, who the F is our QB? He certainly isn't on the team now and not sure if we will be able to get Bradford. Not sure who is out there in FA that will be any good.
I think we will still win a few games this year and I think we might even surprise a couple of teams but playoffs are not in the picture. We'll see what happens.
54 comments:
Zorn will be fired next week or after the Philly game. I am telling you the hiring of Bingo Sherminator was just a step toward making that happen.
Greg Blache is going to be the interim head coach. Snyder has already told Blache which is why he is no longer talking to the media. Snyder has probably also told a few of the guys in the locker room. He has undermined the team enough to ensure that guys won't listen to Zorn and they will continue to lose. Then Sherm will take over play calling next week.
How the Hell are you going to throw downfield - JC doesn't have time to allow that kind of thing to develop. Just as I said, Samuels was going to get hurt and then the Deadskins would be in even worse shape. Heyer got blown back 5 yards on the safety - but that happens every third play with Heyer so it was not a surprise. Batiste was terrible. Rinehart was so ineffective last week that not only did they bench him, they didn't even have him on the active roster yesterday.
The O-line is a disaster and Zorn was forced to call short, quick passes to keep Campbell upright.
The sad part is that it is only week 5, but Zorn is a goner in the next two weeks, there is no hope for this O-line this year, and JC - who I think is the best part of the Redskins offense - will likely be gone after this season. Then they will use their first round pick on a QB and still have a porous O-line.
Oh yeat, a couple of things that I hear Deadskin fans talking about.
1. Get rid of JC - he is the problem. My view is that if JC wasn't as good as he is, the Deadskins would be even worse off. The guy has a horrible O-line, but still has a great completion percentage (#6 in the NFL) and good yardage (#13 in the NFL). JC is not the problem - NOT IN THE LEAST.
2. Fans think they should have gotten Sanchez - there is no comparison between the two. If Sanchez played behind this line it would be a disaster. He plays for the Jets who start 4 first round draft picks on the line, including two Pro Bowlers. In fact, four out of the five starters are Pro Bowl caliber players.
3. Hire Shanahan/Holmgren and get this thing fixed. Unless those guys can play on the O-line it won't matter. In addition, both those guys have proven themselves to be less than stellar at making draft picks. Holmgren was stripped of his GM duties and Shanahan was fired because he could't properly evaluate defensive talent.
Much of what you said is B.S. I'm sure Snyder isn't telling guys in the locker room he is going to fire Zorn and to not listen to him anymore. That's silly.
As far as Sherminator goes, it doesn't matter him being brought in or not. Zorn has had enough time to effectively have some impact on the offense and it is not happening. There have been some very basic things that even a guy that isn't privy to the scheme, practice, game film, play call, etc. that is obvious is not good in terms of coaching.
The O line is not good but it is not as bad as you say it is. You didn't even see last week's game so how do you know how Rinehart played? I just don't understand how the backup RG is either Rinehart or Montgomery but you bypass the two of them and put in Mike Williams who is a tackle and been out of football for a couple of years. It doesn't make sense.
As a coach, if you know your line is depleted, wouldn't you provide some help to them in terms of having a RB or TE chip? Why run play action? What is Sellers thinking about on blocking in short yardage situations? These are coaching/execution issues. You can say it is just the line but there are things coaches can do to help.
Again, the line has not been terrible all year. They are not stellar. Yesterday Batiste was not very good but there were times that JC still had time. Yes, we need to upgrade the O line but the biggest issue I have is coaching. Again, our view is VERY limited so maybe the game plan/play calling is VERY sound and guys just aren't getting it. However, my opinion/my limited view makes me believe that the coaching is suspect.
I don't understand decisions like Orakpo being forced to play LB and cover.
I don't understand some of the questionable play calling.
I don't understand why Williams all of a sudden bypasses Rinehart and Montgomery to play a position he hasn't even practiced.
You can cry O line and Sherminator all you want but it is more than that.
OK, so when Shanahan comes in they will be better? Shanahan couldn't win in Denver the last couple of years which is why he was fired. They seem to be doing just fine without him.
Their O-line was a problem last year and they did nothing to upgrade that really, really bad unit. I don't see how you can say the line is OK, or "not that bad." That is your opinion, but the safety was Heyer getting blown back 5 yards. The 'Skins gave up 5 sacks. It seemed to me that on almost every passing play JC was in trouble. The run game wasn't any better. If that is "not that bad" fine, but we will have to disagree.
Zorn is going to get fired - next week if they lose to KC or the following week after the Philly game when they lose. Blache is going to take over and the Redskins will still lose most of their games. It won't be any different because their O-line is HORRIBLE! Probably the worst in the NFL.
They way Zorn is being set up is exactly how Double G was dumped.
Snyder went to Blache and told him two days before he dumped Double G what was going on. Blache is such a yes man, that he crapped on Double G rather than tell him what was happening.
Double G and Blache talked on the phone before Double G was let go and Blache didn't tell him what he knew. It is pathetic.
It is so obvious that Blache knows Zorn's days are numbered. That is why he isn't talking to the media. He doesn't want to admit that Snyder has already told him that Zorn is out in a matter of days/weeks.
The whole reason Sherminator is there is to be ready to take the play calling when it happens.
This is exactly how Double G was dumped. Snyder loves to back stab and create confusion and then whack whoever he is going to whack. It must be fun for him.
Read about Rinehart and your offensive line.
Only you would say it is "not so bad."
I've accepted the fact that the team sucks, so I'm not really disappointed with yesterday's lost. In fact, I didn't think we'd win. My disappointment lies with the entire organization / team. There's a point where someone in the organization should have the freedom to just speak out and say. Here's the problem. Here's why we stink. Here's how we fix it. Instead, all we hear is speculation and we need "another set of eyes." Maybe they know what the issue is and maybe they're committed to resolving it, but they're assuming the fans are stupid in the process and that's what bugs me.
Regarding JKSD's comments:
1. Defense...I liked the pressure we put on Delhomme and we basically stuffed the running game. I am really disappointed in our pass coverage though. We suck at zone schemes. It seems like the safeties and LBs are always a step behind in getting to the receivers coming across the middle.
2. Special Teams - The kickoff return was an aberration...It's going to happen sometimes. The muffed punt was a horrible play by Westbrook. What the hell was he doing running towards the returner? He's another worthless player on the roster.
3. Offense...The O-line is a shambles. Samuels is the key and when he got hurt, it showed just how little depth there is. Batiste was the only option at LT because the team has no faith in Heyer at that spot...I'll say it again...We should have drafted Michael Oher.
A few things I've heard since the game ended...
1. Williams started because Reinhart was not physical enough last week. Reinhart is a bust. He was a reach in the 3rd round, so it's a bad draft pick.
2. Zorn said the O-line performed so poorly that he had to trim back the playbook so much that the O was limited in what it could do.
3. According to Colt Brennan this morning on the Joe Theismann show, the players really like Zorn and they are willing to do whatever it takes to win for him.
4. Joe Theismann said he spoke with Vinny about the O-line before the season started. Vinny knows the O-line is a weakness. The organization went into the season with its fingers crossed.
Deeps, looks like you have fully "nutted up" and recognize the O-line for what it is - a complete disaster.
When the Deadskins draft a "franchise QB" with their first pick in an effort to sell jerseys they'll have the same problem again next year. It is sad, but you know Danny Boy will do that rather than draft an O-linemen.
The O-line is a disaster with Samuels out. It is servicable with him in there. I stand by my statements and JKSD's opinion that the line is not that bad...with the condition that Samuels is healthy. We saw the lack of depth yesterday because the best player on the line went down.
Next year's draft will be interesting. It sucks that I'm already thinking about next year's draft. A QB may be too tempting to pass up if one of the top flight guys is available when we pick. We need to suck it up though and draft a tackle...Then we need to use all of our remaining picks on O-line depth...That's how bad this line is now that it's two best players are hurt (Samuels and Thomas).
Robs, what is your problem? I am not saying that this line is great. I knew that they were an issue. They sucked the second part of last season. I was the first one to say such. However, given what they are, they have performed pretty well out there. Agree with Deepie in that there isn't much depth and with the two best linemen going out, it hurts. Especially when one is a perennial All Pro. That would hurt any team. And don't give me Jason Reid stuff as proof. When I gave you Haugh stuff on Rexy, you threw that stuff in my face saying that Haugh is just a Bear hater -- which is not true. So if you can't take Haugh, how can you take Reid? Oh yeah, you are a hater. I'm sure you will provide some rationale though.
I don't know how to make clear to you my feelings about the O line. Deeps seems to understand but you can't seem to grasp it.
My issue is with coaching. If you know the line is depleted, do things to give better protection. Assign a RB or a TE to help out. Forget play action. Line up in shotgun. Anything to buy your QB more time.
Also, JZ said in the post game news conference that he was fine with Rinehart and Rinehart had a little shoulder issue but that isn't what kept him out of the game this week. They were just happy with Williams and wanted to give him a shot. Something isn't right. JZ is a stand up guy so just say what the issue is. It just doesn't make sense AGAIN that Rinehart and/or Montgomery are Thomas' backup but instead of one of them they put in Williams a guy who hasn't sniffed the NFL in a couple of years and who isn't a guard. What is up with that? I'm sure you will blame Snyder but what about the coaches?
As far as your speculation, that's all it is -- speculation. I don't doubt Zorn will be fired. He should be showing some sort of improvement with the offense. If execution is poor some of that falls on coaches. The starting line was good enough to provide enough pass protection but we still aren't making plays. The make shift line is pretty bad but they have to then give help to the line.
I didn't have a problem with the defense other than the two plays I mentioned. Snyder didn't make Orakpo a LB. Again, a coaching decision. He cannot cover. He is not being utilized. It's the coaches job to put players in the best position to win and maximize their talents. We aren't doing that. Of course, you will blame Snyder.
McDaniels is doing that. Singletary is doing that. Singletary doesn't have much different personnel from last year but they are playing at a much higher level. Denver's defense sucked last year. They upgraded but McDaniels has got them playing with a much different attitude. You can absolve the coaches and just blame Snyder if you want but that is not correct.
I posted a link about what the Deadskins think about Rinehart.
I told you last week that Samuels would get hurt - the idea that Samuels and Thomas would make it through the season is ludicrous given their ages and recent history of injuries. But that (and their super high cap numbers) had the Deadskins holding their breath.
If you guys think the line is not that bad, that is OK with me. It really doesn't matter to me whether you can accept reality or not, but this O-line is literally the worst O-line I have ever seen in the NFL. I cannot remember one that is any worse. Portis' blocking helps cover a few things up and JC's talent helps, but it is horrible.
Just imagine what it is going to be like when the Deadskins play the Giants, Dallas, New Orleans, Denver, etc. lines. Dumervil may get 7 sacks himself.
You are going to have a new coach within the next 2 weeks - we'll see how much of a difference it makes.
"With the fifth pick in the 2010 NFL draft, Washington selects Tim Tebow, QB, Florida."
Get ready for it. Danny Boy won't pass up on him and he is tough enough to take a few blows with that band of stiffs playing in front of him.
GB's line is horrible. They have been. Rodgers is under duress every time he drops back. If not for his mobility, he'd have a lot more sacks. I'm sorry I don't have a good view of all the O lines in the league but I can only comment on those I have seen.
Your hatred for the Redskins clouds your judgement. Your link to Reid's comments are fine. You can blame Snyder for your car troubles. You can absolve coaching for everything and think they are all outstanding, super smart individuals.
Here's the thing. I am not saying that Cerrato and Snyder are not w/o blame but you will put all blame on them and none on coaching. I say coaching has been suspect for the decisions I mentioned in my earlier posts.
Robs...Serious? Worst line you've ever seen? Your use of superlatives when it comes to 'Skins-bashing is ridiculous. I've said over and over again that the O-line hasn't been an overpowering line when it comes to the running game, but the pass blocking had been very good through 4 games. If you want to turn a blind-eye to that fact, then it's pointless to discuss this with you.
With Samuels and Thomas out, we're going to see a bad line. There's no depth. We all agree on that. To call the line through the first 4 games the worst ever, however, is just short-sighted.
Two years ago, your beloved Bears gave up 43 sacks and only mustered up a 3.1 yard/carry average for the season. That was a bad line.
I keep saying the same thing - in two weeks you will get your wish and Zorn will be gone. Then we will see who the next ex-coach of the Deadskins will be. My guess is that the Deadskins will still lose.
In the off-season, Shanahan will come to the Deadskins - assuming he doesn't go to the Cowgirls. But Shanahan was fired from Denver for a reason anyway so that won't make much difference.
Zorn has a better winning percentage than every other coach that Snyder has had except for Marty - if he wins this week he will have the same winning percentage as Marty.
Now what is the one constant over the last 10 years? Danny Boy!
Vinny was fired before - by Marty. Then, when Marty fixed the cap problems and had the team going 8-3 and on the verge of real improvement, what did Danny Boy do? He fired Marty and brought back Vinny.
I hope you like Tim Tebow or Colt McCoy because that is who the next ex-QB of the Washington Deadskins is going to be - they won't be able to do anything without an O-line.
The only reason the Deadskins aren't leading the NFL in sacks allowed is because the Deadskins are playing the worst teams in the NFL and JC has talent.
The worst scoring defenses in the NFL are Lions, Rams, and Bucs. The Panthers are #26. The median number of sacks in the NFL is 10 per team. Here is how the teams the Deadskins have played have stacked up:
Giants - 14 sacks (3 against Skins)
Rams - 9 (5 against Skins)
Lions - 10 (2 against Skins)
Bucs - 9 (3 against Skins)
Panthers - 9 (5 against the Skins)
The point is this - the Deadskins are playing the worst defenses that are also in the bottom half of the NFL in terms of sacks right now. For the Rams and Panthers, they have gotten more than half of their total number of sacks against the Deadskins.
They get one more game this week against a weak KC defense, then the bloodbath will begin when they play the tougher teams.
It is pretty obvious that this is going to be a disasterous year in terms of sacks - 18 in just five games against the worst defenses in the NFL is bad. They are on pace for 58 for the year and are likely to see their 3.7 yards/carry rushing average fall even further.
You will be wishing for just 43 sacks and 3.1 yards/carry by about week 12 this year.
I don't watch every team - so I cannot say who the worst O line in the history of the NFL is. But, having watched the Redskins and Bears over the last couple of decades - including some really bad Bears teams - this Deadskin O line certainly seems like the worst that I can remember.
They will likely give up 60 plus sacks this year (it will be over 70 if Todd Collins starts 5 or more games at QB). They will almost certainly average less than 3.3 yards per carry.
If that happens - this may very well be the worst line we have ever seen - of course, we'll see as the season goes on.
It's clear you are simply loving this very unusual situation where your prediction is correct. You knew called it. The line would go bad. Good for you...but let's be realistic.
First of all...We gave up one sack to the Rams, so your numbers are wrong.
2nd...I said we're going to see a bad line now that Samuels is hurt and Thomas is out. The line was serviceable even with Thomas out. It was good against the Giants giving up two sacks, one of which was clearly Campbell's fault.
3rd...Let's see what happens. Next week we'll have Heyer playing left tackle. Reinhart will be back at RG and Williams will be RT. It's patchwork, but if it holds up until Samuels can come back, we'll be ok on the line. It still needs A LOT of fixing, but it's what we've got.
Samuels is out this week. Here is the starting line against the Chiefs:
LT - Heyer
LG - Dockery
C - Rabach
RG - Rinehart/Montgomery
RT - Williams
Thank goodness the Chiefs only have 6 sacks and have the 5th worst defense in the NFL. That said, they will still probably get at least 4 sacks.
I'll say a prayer for JC that he stays healthy this week. It seems likely that he is going to get beat up by a bad Chiefs pass rush.
Sorry about the 5 sacks mistake - I was looking at the yards lost underneath the number of sacks.
The Giants sacked the Deadskins 3 times.
Still, by season's end, I am guessing the Deadskins will give up 60 or more sacks given their schedule.
I'm no genius about the line - EVERYONE INCLUDING YOU TWO - knew the line was the problem but Danny Boy didn't address it. Instead he went out and spent $150M on Fat Albert and DeAngelo. DeAngelo may get some interceptions, but he gets burned regularly and he got dragged like a school girl by Jake "the Snake" Delhomme to close out the game. That money would have been better spent getting a new offensive line. At least then the Deadskins would be competitive.
Carolina, Detroit, Tampa, St. Louis and Kansas City
After this weekend, their combined record against the rest of the NFL will be:
1-18 (Carolina and Tampa play each other this wee)
Combined record of these teams vs Skins after this weekend:
3-2
That is sad, but more than likely it will be true.
You are on pace for 45 sacks at the current pace - but again, the big time defenses are coming up so the sack totals will increase.
That's why I predict 60.
One of the sacks given up to the Gigantics was Randle El stupidly taking a sack on an option play...hardly the line's fault.
Whatever...I said you were right about this line. I was hoping for the best despite having a couple of guys who were clearly on their last legs (Samuels and Thomas). They're out and now we have no quality players backing them up. It's a bad situation.
I was listening to Doc Walker today. He, like all 'Skins fans, was absolutely frustrated. His take, and one that I can agree with was, your talent is your talent. You have to use who you have. If the talent doesn't match the system, change the system because the players can only change so much. If Zorn's too stubborn to change the system to maximize his talent, then the blame when it comes to the lack of production on the field is on him.
He separated the front office issues from the on-field issues. He also believes the front office is not at par when it comes to bringing in the right talent. You can look at on the field separately from the front office foolishness though.
No one can win with this bunch of stiffs on the offensive line.
You'll get your new coach in a couple of weeks and the Redskins will still continue to lose the overwhelming majority of their games. Frankly, I don't see where they are going to find the 4 additional wins I thought they would get to go to 6-10 this year.
If they lose this week, they likely won't win more than 2-3 of their remaining games. 4-12 looks like a real possibility.
This has to be one of the funniest comments I have read by a disgruntled Redskin fans:
"I think instead of watching the game this week, I'm just going to take a dump on my coffee table and stare at it for 3 hours."
It was a comment on the Post's blog site.
Another indicator of how bad things have gotten...I wasn't able to go to the last game and I won't be able to go this weekend either. I put my tickets up for sale online and the best I could get was about 1/3 of the ticket price...
People are unwilling to pay what was the acceptable market rate to see this team anymore. If things continue down this path, Danny Boy will have to start worrying about significant revenue losses and local blackouts.
The only reason the games are still sold out is that many season ticket holders had to sign long term, multi-year contracts.
As those expire over the next several years, more and more tickets will go unsold.
This is on Danny Boy.
I'm catching up late on this.
Robs says that the Skins O line is the worst he has ever seen. That's ridiculous. Did you see GB's O line? They are horrendous. He has been sacked 20 times in 3 games. He is on pace for 126 sacks this year. If Rodgers wasn't as good a scrambler as he is that number would be far worse. Of course, Robs still thinks the Skins have the worst line he has ever seen. He's full of shat.
We get it, Robs. You hate the Skins but you have lost all sense of objectivity.
Before the injuries, the line play has not been that bad. We went up against the Giants and contained their rush. As Deepie mentioned, one of the sacks was on Randle El. Another sack was because JC held on to the ball too long.
AGAIN I'm not saying that it is a first class line and I am the first to admit that the second half of last season, they were pathetic. The Steeler game last year was an abomination. I couldn't remember a single play where JC wasn't under immediate duress. It has not been the case this year. I am not beyond criticizing the line. I just don't think it has been that bad. We now know that they lack depth and that is a concern. Still, there were plenty of plays against the Panthers where JC still had time to pass. I am still most concerned about the coaching.
I agree with Doc and Deepie that you have to work with what you have. You have to adjust. That is what coaching is all about. Utilizing the talent that you have. Singletary does that. McDaniels does that. Ryan does that.
Against the Panthers, on the 4th and 3 on the Panthers 40 yard line when we went for it, Zorn called a draw play. That's fine but if you do that, have multiple WRs to spread the defense. Everyone was crowded at the line, there was no chance of that play being a success. JC audibled out of it and did the slant to Moss. He stared him down and was an easy bat down for the D lineman. That is not good playcalling.
There have been questionable calls every game. I cannot remember so many issues I have had with coaching/play calling.
Zorn will get fired. He will land on his feet. I think he is best suited as a QB coach because I think he can communicate very well on a one on one setting. I believe he can really mentor/tutor QBs. He may very well be a decent O coordinator. However, I do not believe he is a great head football coach. He has gone 4-10 in his last 14 games. He has had players question him. Don't get me wrong. I like the guy and want him to succeed. My opinion is that he is not a great head coach. I don't think he will get a head coaching gig in the NFL for some time, if ever.
I just think it is ridiculous how Robs believes he is objective.
By the end of the year, the Redskins will have a lower yards/carry rushing average and a higher sack total than GB this year.
I said it before - the only reason the Deadskins aren't leading the NFL in sacks allowed is because they are playing the worst teams in the NFL. If GB and Washington flipped schedules, Washington would be leading. Let's see how it turns out at the end of the year.
You need to read about Rinehart. He was demoted because he sucked - the shoulder thing is a bit of post-game cover. The Times and Post have both written that nothing was wrong with Rinehart.
JKSD, you are going to have a new coach within 12 days (perhaps next week) - then I suppose there will be great improvement.
I don't understand why you are talking about objectivity. You are a Deadskin fan, I am not. SO WHAT?
I'm glad you know that about the GB and Redskin lines. The GB line is HORRIBLE. I could actually take you as someone semi credible if you said that their O line was terrible. Rodgers is on the run every single play. But, of course, the Skins have the worst line you have ever seen in the history of football. Okay.
I can only tell you what I saw of Rinehart. He didn't seem that bad in the two games he played. I am not an expert on Guard technique and did not see the game film so I cannot confirm his play without being privy to that. Again, I can only comment on what I watched and he didn't seem bad.
Don't you think it is odd that instead of putting in the backup to Thomas (which is either Rinehart or Montgomery) they put in Mike Williams who is a tackle? Is that sound coaching?
As mentioned, I don't doubt that Zorn will be fired. It's not so much a question of if as when. Even if he is replaced by Bill Cowher mid season, it's not like it would change things overnight. You can't be so silly to think that a coach can effectively change an entire football team's scheme, playbook, personnel, etc. overnight.
I speak of objectivity because you are so deluded in coming down hard on anything Redskin going so far as to getting upset that Danny Boy took Tom Cruise to the Air and Space Museum. WHO GIVES A SHAT ABOUT THAT?!!! However, you got a replica of Jeff Cutler's arm made and using it to fist you every night and think that everything Bear is holy. It's not just me, Robs. If 10 people are telling you the same thing, don't you think it is a little credible?
Sure, I am a Skin fan but I am not beyond criticizing them if they don't do well.
Also, I have the right to change my mind as the season unfolds and things come to light (e.g., UVA sucked the first few weeks of the season. They have turned things around the last couple of weeks. We'll see who the real UVA is but if they continue to turn it around than kudos to them.).
None of your comment makes any sense.
I'm comfortable with my belief about the Deadskin line - and I've said let's see how it stacks up at the end of the season.
The reason Williams was in is because Rinehart stinks and they don't have anyone else. Buges and Zorn are just trying to make do with what Vinny and Danny Boy gave them. They are coaching the best they can but they can't turn a pile of sh*t into a bowl of candy.
I still have no idea what you are talking about with respect to objectivity. I always say I hate Danny Boy and love to see the Deadskins lose - SO WHAT?
Who are the 10 other people you are referring to? You constantly refer to "experts" or "everyone" or "others". WTF are you talking about?
I'm a Bears fan that can criticize my team too. SO WHAT?
I have a right to change my mind to. SO WHAT?
You just seem to be blabbing gibberish.
I think I can speak for JKSD when I say that you, Robs, spew your anti-Skins' shart without a lick of objectivity and unrealistic criticism of the team. Yes, things are bad right now, but to say the line is the worst ever is ridiculous. To claim that, without a doubt, Danny Boy is intentionally screweing with Zorn is pure speculation. To constantly claim that Malcolm Kelly, Devin Thomas, and Fred Davis are complete busts in their 2nd seasons when they rarely get on the field to prove otherwise is premature. On and on and so forth.
I've said this before...Your use of superlatives when it comes to criticizing the team make your criticism completely unbelieveable and totally ignoreable. I guess the only reason why JKSD and I respond to your insane comments is in the hopes that you may see things with a slightly more open mind at some point. I guess it's an unrealistic expectation...but oh well.
For the record, most of your comments are proving to be true to some degree, but hardly to the degree to which you present them.
Deeps, so if the Redskins line leads the NFL in sacks and gives up 60+ sacks and less than 3.5 yards/carry, will you agree with me that it is the worst we've seen. If not, give me your criteria.
It is clear you don't believe all of the stories from various media outlets that Danny Boy is already on the hunt for a new coach and has been in contact with multiple candidates. It is also clear that you don't agree that the hiring of Sherminator was a bad sign for Zorn. You also apparently don't think Danny Boy has a history of screwing his coaches and undermining them. There I suppose we will just have to disagree.
When the three 2nd round picks from last year start producing let me know. I haven't seen it and I don't see any reason to believe they are going to live up to being good second round picks. If I had to guess right now, Davis will get cut before next year by the new coach. DT and MK may get another chance, but Marko would get on the field right now if Vinny and Danny Boy weren't trying to save their legacy as talent evaluators.
JKSD, just to clear up one thing. Green Bay has given up 20 sacks in 4 games so they are on pace for 80 sacks.
They get their starting LT Chad Clifton back this week after missing 2 games - that was the single biggest reason the Vikings ran roughshod over their line. They also signed Mark Tauscher - their former starting right tackle who has been hurt with a knee injury for the last 10 months. They look like they will improve.
Who are the Deadskins' getting? Given their upcoming schedule, I am expecting them to give up 5 sacks/game after this week. That would be 50 sacks in their final 10 games. They also won't rush the ball very well against most of the teams they have to play.
In the end, 60+ sacks and 3.2 yards/carry seem like what they will end up with. We'll see.
Robs...The line is bad now. You said it was the worst you've seen prior to Samuels and Thomas getting hurt. That is what I say is ridiculous. If you are referring to the depth they had at that point, fine. But that is different than saying the O-Line that was on the field against the Giants and Rams early in the season was the worst ever. I think that distinciton lies with the Texans line that destroyed David Carr's confidence and career as an NFL starter.
I believe Snyder is coach hunting. I can concede that the talent is not good enough to go to the Super Bowl, but to go 4-10 in the last 14 games with potentially the lowest scoring offensive attack in NFL history...I think he's got more than enough reason to be doubting his coach. If he's smart he'll know that the whole thing needs to be blown up and started over.
I believe Zorn's system is in part the cause for the three 2nd rounders being so unproductive. He expects perfection in route running and he wouldn't put his young guys on the field last year because they were a bit imprecise in their routes. Now, when they catch a pass, he immediately rotates them out to get the next offensive package on the field. It destroys momentum and doesn't help the confidence of these guys.
Zorn will be gone soon and I won't miss him. I wish he'd succeed and get things right, but he won't be missed based on how things are going. I just hope Snyder doesn't f around when he hires a real coach.
I don't remember saying that this was the worst line I've ever seen at the start of the season. I just wrote it in this series of posts.
That said, I know I wrote at the start of the year that Thomas and Samuels will both get hurt during the year. That was fairly obvious given their age and their last few years. So, anyone who thought they would hold up all year would only be fooling themselves.
Deeps, do you agree with the numbers I laid out - leading the NFL in sacks, 60+ sacks and less than 3.5 yards/carry being an indicator of the worst line we have ever seen? Is that a good indicator of the worst line we've seen?
When you have a coach and the owner is fairly openly interviewing coaching candidates the coach is undermined and the team suffers.
Davis is clearly a bum. He giggles in meetings and still doesn't know his assignments. There is absolutely no hope for him. As for MK and DT, you'll get you chance to see what they can do with the interim coach this year and their new coach next year.
60+ sacks and less than 3.5 yards/carry would be the worst line the 'Skins have had in ages. I said, however, that the worst line we've seen was the Texans' line of a few years ago when David Carr was sacked 68 times (2006).
As a fan, I had to hope the line would hold up. Predicting that Samuels and Thomas wouldn't be able to hold up was a realistic assumption, but not one I fully expected. It happened. Now we'll just have to see if it gets as bad as you think it will.
I will say this...If Zorn continues to wait for the team to catch up to his system, then 60+ sacks is very likely. If, by the grace of the football gods, he realizes that he needs to make adjustments to maximize what he has (a good scrambling QB, an old but still serviceable RB, and speed at WR and TE), then it won't be that bad...meaning 8-8 is a possibility.
Wow! 8-8? Do you really think that is a possibility at this point? Have you seen the actual schedule they have to play?
If they win this week - and that is a big if - I'll assume they will beat the Raiders but what other four games do you think they will win? I'm just curious.
I would not be surprised if this O-line challenges 68 sacks, but we will see. I just hope JC stays healthy so he can move on to a real organization and win.
Robs...what you fail to acknowledge is that the 'Skins have lost three games by a combined total of 14 points. The defense is good enough to keep them in games. I'm saying, "by the grace of the football gods," if the offense can get it's collective head out of it's arse (by that I mean Zorn quits trying to match his players to his terrible system), then this team can rebound to a certain degree.
I'm aware of the schedule. When there's such a small margin between winning and losing, it's not unreasonable to think the ball may bounce the 'Skins' way a few more times than you think it will.
I'm not failing to recognize that. I know the Redskins D is pretty good. It was good last year and the team wen 2-6 down the stretch.
What you seem to fail to understand is that the Deadskins are playing the very worst teams in the NFL and are struggling - mostly on offense, but the D hasn't been all that impressive either.
If they are struggling so mightily against the dregs of the NFL, it seems much more reasonable to assume that they will lose most of their games after this week (and even this week I think KC will beat them).
I understand the struggles are occuring against the NFL's worst teams. I am blaming that on the system Zorn has implemented and the fact that he seems to be blaming it completely on execution and difficulties in "coaching-up" the players to fit the system.
If Zorn doesn't make much needed adjustments, the team will go 4-12 and Campbell will be sacked about 50 times. If he does simple things like operate out of shotgun more, run the 2-minute offense more, stop rotating his receivers in and out so much, use his tall receivers in the redzone more, stop running stretch plays when there are 9 guys in the box, etc., then there will be more success on offense.
Adjustments are needed, but if you listen to him, he sounds intent on getting the players to come up to speed with the system. It doesn't work that way. Gibbs learned that 5 games into his 1st season. Zorn needs to learn the same thing or everything you're predicting will come true.
Don't worry. Danny Boy has undermined Zorn and has all but ensured that Zorn will be gone within the next week or two.
Then your wet dream of having Zorn fired and allowing a real coach to fix the Redskins will be realized.
Nothing like running more pass plays and 2-minute offense to getting sacked, turning the ball over, and putting even more pressure on your D. That is all that will happen with that O-line with your philosophy.
This team stinks and will stink no matter who the coach is.
Hey...at least it's an idea. I can respect Zorn if he tries something...anything to right the ship. The decimated O-line limits how much success the offense can have, but you have to try something. Right now, Zorn's approach fits the classic definition of insanity. He keeps trying the same thing over and over again expecting the outcome to be radically different at some point.
Your comment fits what Danny Boy has been doing for the last decade perfectly. And the dwindling number of fans like you are still lapping up his off-season antics.
Zorn is 21 games into his head coaching career - he has a better winning percentage than Danny's other coaches except for Marty. He has been successful when he had an offensive line. Changing everything would just be a panic move that would bring further instability to the organization.
He should stick with what he believes and let the chips fall where they may. Danny Boy isn't going to sell the team. Vinny is going to continue to be the GM. Those are the principles of upper management. Zorn shouldn't abandon his principles to match the loser bosses he has.
Per usual, I agree with Deeps and Robs can't seem to grasp things.
I believe the biggest problem is coaching now. I like JZ but he cannot get the players motivated. I think the players like him but they are losing faith in him as a leader and in his system.
Again, you have to work with what you have and have your system fit the players you have and the strengths they bring. He hasn't done that.
There have been questionable decisions in every game. For example:
- Calling a halfback option on a third down.
- Running the ball on a 3rd and 8 at midfield.
- Going for it on 4th downs.
- On 4th and 3 at the opposition 40 yard line, calling a draw play with everyone stacked at the line.
- Not knowing when to call a timeout.
- Bypassing both backups and putting in a tackle who has been out of football for a few years in at guard because you want the bigger body in there for the run game.
These are just a few instances of poor coaching. Again, forget the tactician mentality and not getting the team pumped up and ready to believe.
By in large, the defense is fine. The offense sucks. Yes, the O line is now decimated and yes, Robs was crying that the O line was the worst he has ever seen even before the injuries is just nonsense. There is enough talent on the offensive side of the ball to be better than we are. For Robs, I'm not saying we can be an offensive juggernaut but we should be better than we are.
And no, I am not naive enough to believe that by switching the head coach on Wednesday of this week will mean that we will be able to rack up 50 points on Sunday. It takes time to move from the old system into the new system.
I know Deeps probably agrees with me but I don't know why it has to be so hard explaining things to Robs.
The line has been fine for most of this year -- prior to the injuries.
Zorn is 4-10 over his last 14 games. The offense has not looked much better this year. There have been some very questionable offensive decisions made.
On your site, you posted a rant from Riggo who came down on Cerrato which we all feel is appropriate. He also said Zorn wasn't fit to be a head football coach. He might be able to coach high school. He wasn't even sure Zorn would make a good coordinator.
Do you think Zorn is a good head football coach?
I have no idea. With the O-line Danny Boy gave him he was doomed from the start. The way Danny Boy has undermined Zorn didn't help either.
Regarding Zorn's coaching ability...Remember, Even when the team was 6-2 last year with a good and healthy offensive line, the team never scored more than 29 points in a game. There were two quality wins against the Cowboys and Eagles, but the team otherwise struggled to win against bad to average teams.
The obvious problems that exist with the offense now have been there since Zorn showed up.
No Deeps, the Deadskin offense has been abyssmal for the better part of the last decade. Since 2000 (I didn't look before then), the Deadskins have only had one year where they averaged more than 21 points per game. 21 points is about the cutoff for the top third of the NFL.
The problems were there before Zorn and will be there after Zorn because Danny Boy doesn't know what he is doing, and is especially averse to drafting offensive linemen.
To JKSD's point about coaching. EVERY game has play calls that are questionable. Sometimes they work and sometimes they don't. This week the Jets called two fake punts and they worked. If they hadn't it would have been horrible for the Jets (they lost anyway). Twice this year the Bears have gone for it on 4th down inside the opponent's 1. Both times they were successful - but they were passes - and Bears' fans were happy. If they had not converted, Bears fans would complain about not running the ball. If Portis' halfback option is complete everyone says, "Great call!" But it wasn't. IT HAPPENS, GET OVER IT!
The fact that Williams played over Rinehart was because Rinehart sucks sh*t, not because Zorn is an idiot. The depth chart is just a piece of paper.
The real difference in the NFL comes from having good offensive and defensive lines. Playoff teams have good ones - non-playoff teams don't. We're going to see how bad the Redskins O-line has fallen in coming weeks.
Have you seen Rinehart play? I know about the articles and such but from my perspective, he was decent in his time in there. It just doesn't make sense to bypass him AND Montgomery and just go straight to Williams -- a guy that hasn't sniffed the NFL in a couple of years and was practicing as a tackle. It's just weird.
As far as coaching, I'm not only talking about going for it on 4th downs.
A coach is supposed to put his team in a position to win and utilize the strength of the talent that he currently has. I don't feel like that is being done. We have a VERY limited perspective of what actually goes on although you often times seem to think you are an "insider." Still, there are basic things that just do not seem right.
Sure, you're right that everyone would have been happy if Portis completes the option pass but it wasn't a good call. It's fine to do that on first or second down but on third down from the 5 yard line, chances are the defense will be expecting pass and send in more DBs. If odds are that a throw is more likely, wouldn't you want your QB to throw the ball?
What about 3rd and 8 at midfield and running?
What about a 4th down draw play when the line is stacked?
What about not knowing when to call timeout/clock management?
These are fundamental issues.
You are quick to agree with Riggo on Cerrato but don't want to agree with him on coaching.
I like Zorn. However, I think he is better at communicating one on one as opposed to the whole team. I think he is a very good QB coach but not much of a head coach.
Robs, you are an admitted hater. I get it you hate the Redskins and are a Bear fan. However, your hatred runs SO rampant that you lose all objectivity and don't even know it. It's clear to the rest of us.
You said before Rogers couldn't play and wasn't even close to Pro Bowl material and affectionately called him "double move" for not being able to play the position. Now that he stood up and challenged Snyder a bit and we will probably lose him, all of a sudden he is a "better than average" CB.
You made fun of the "Arch Deluxe" signing saying he couldn't play but when signed by the Bears, he was going to be a great fit. I know you tried to defend it with it was the money that he signed for but if the guy can't play, it doesn't matter how little you pay for him, he can't play. Same thing with Lloyd. It's amusing because if they are the Redskins they suck but if they go somewhere else -- particularly the Bears -- hey, they're pretty good.
You made fun of Jeff Cutler. If he had signed with the Redskins, you would have had a field day with that. But now that he is on the Bears, we're talking about a perennial All Pro player.
You are more than happy to cite everything from the Jasons (first LaCanfora and now Reid) but do not want to believe anything negative about Haugh because he is just a Bear hater.
These are just a few examples of your inability to be objective. I am sure Deepie agrees with me and you probably will say that I'm not making sense but there in lies the crux of our issues.
I didn't watch and grade Rinehart in his two games, nor have I watched him in practice - NEITHER HAVE YOU. I'll just take the word of the coaches and Jason Reid who wrote watches practices and covers the team.
I am not talking about 4th down plays only. Zorn is calling plays for a team with no offensive line, a running back that the players hate (Portis), and questionable wide receivers. If some of those plays don't work GET OVER IT, it happens.
I have been talking about Danny Boy and Vinny being a problem for years. If you don't like my view on Zorn - that I have no idea whether he is a good coach or not then GET OVER IT.
Rogers is far from being a Pro Bowl player - I haven't changed my opinion of him. He doesn't scare anyone, teams don't worry about Rogers. You need to stop expecting me to disparage Rogers.
JKSD, don't be such a pussy - so what if Deepie agrees with you. WTF? Why should I care that you two Deadskin-loving ding dongs think the Redskins are OK? If they had a great coach what would they finish up this year? 8-8? 9-7?
We post opinions on these blogs. I have been right a little more often the last few weeks. You say I am not objective - I am not claiming to be. But the implication that you are is silly.
I did watch Rinehart in the two games he played. I should say I watched the two games in which Rinehart played and I didn't notice anything out of the ordinary. I did watch him in the one practice I went to and he seemed fine. So go ahead and go with Reid's blog. I just think it is funny that you are fine with Reid being the "insider" expert but not Haugh who covers the Bears. That's fine.
What Deepie and I have been saying is the line hasn't been that bad prior to the injuries. The offense is not making progress. Zorn is 4-10 in the last 14 games. He has made a number of very questionable calls. A coach is there to utilize the talent he currently has and put players in a position to win. We have Orakpo trying to cover. There are a number of very questionable coaching decisions. Fine, you love Zorn. I suppose if he comes over to the Bears and replaces Peppie Hamilton, Cutler will develop into a surefire first ballot hall of famer as he leads the Bears in playoff atmosphere game each and every week.
I don't care whether you disparage Carlos or not. I have no expectations of that. I just find it amusing that before you said that he couldn't play, made fun of him but now he is better than average. The second some one leaves the Redskins, they are a good player.
Deepie and I have never said all is well with the Redskins. You need to get over yourself. Honestly, there is no talking to you.
How have I not been objective? I have been critical of the Redskins. I recognized last year that the O line was a problem. I have not been a fan of Vinsanity. I also am critical of Zorn as I don't think he is doing a very good job. Despite the O line's shortcomings this year, they have performed reasonably well thus far. With the injuries, they are decimated and I am even more concerned with their production.
I have gotten on JC when he hasn't performed. How have I not been objective? You can name call if you want although this is something that you don't like when I have done but, again, you're the one that needs to get over yourself.
OK Coach JKSD I guess you know Rinehart better than Zorn and Bugel. I didn't realize you grade O-linemen on the side. That practice you attended must have been really eye-opening.
I don't know whether Zorn is good or not - don't put words in my mouth. I told you exactly what I think. He has to deal with a team that has subpar talent, especially on the O-line and at receiver. The Deadskins have been mediocre for a decade under Danny Boy. He is the 6th coach Danny has had and none of them have been anything better than mediocre.
Carlos is still with the Deadskins - but he will sign elsewhere next year and add corner to the Deadskin list of needs. I haven't changed fundamentally changed my mind on Rogers, but even if I did, SO WHAT? I'm sure you have changed your mind on Cedric Benson. UVA. JMU. SO?
I am not claiming to be objective - I am claiming to be correct. They are not mutually exclusive. One can be biased and be correct. We'll see in coming weeks who is correct.
Rinehart is not playing this week apparently due to a shoulder issue. I think it's a cover-up for "he sucks." Will Montgomery gets the start. Props to a local product (Centreville, I think). Too bad he's a Hokie. Williams goes to his natural position (RT) and Heyer goes to LT (I'll pray that this isn't a disaster).
The players (Portis, Rogers, Moss, among others) have commented on the lack of depth of the O-line. Portis said it's nothing new and they have to go with who they have. Everyone and their mother knows the O-line is a mess...Vinny has said the O-line is a priority in upcoming off-seasons. Zorn has said they tried to upgrade the O-line in the draft, but couldn't justify taking a marginal lineman when our picks came up because other players were much higher on the draft board. Robs makes it sound like Danny Boy has no clue what he needs to do. He knows. He's just making bad decisions prioritizing the team's needs. I have to believe he'll come around.
Here are the Redskins drafts the last few years.
2 offensive lineman drafted by the Deadskins in the last 5 drafts (Rinehart - a bust out of the 3rd round last year; Lefotu - 7th round in 2006.
The last time they drafted a starter for the O-line was Derrick Dockery in 2003.
That is just idiotic. You think Danny Boy has learned his lesson? I doubt it.
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