Now that the four individuals have been arrested and more details are coming out on the murder of Sean Taylor it looks to be truly a perfect accident. It looks as though Sean Taylor's house was targeted for burglary but there was no intent to ever kill him. When you think about it, Sean Taylor was not supposed to be there. He was probably going to leave very early Monday morning to get back for treatment at Redskin Park. The burglars did not think the house was occupied. That is probably why they were as noisy as they were when they broke into the place. The individual(s) who bust into Sean's bedroom were probably startled by seeing anyone there much less Sean holding a machete. He probably panicked and shot two rounds one catching Sean in a perfect spot that severed his femoral artery. It was all a perfect accident. It truly is unfortunate. If Sean isn't there, if he left Sunday night, if he isn't holding the machete, if he just announces that he is there and lets the burglars take what they want, if the bullet hits a quarter of an inch some where else on the leg, if so many different things, Sean is probably alive today. Still, it all happened perfectly.
What I think is it is truly a tragedy but it's almost so perfect that I can't help but think that it was God's will that this was supposed to happen. God works in mysterious ways and this is just another example of His work and how we have to accept His order.
I am saddened by this tragedy but it was supposed to be. Now one life is gone and for these other kids they have ruined their own lives. Again, I will miss watching Sean play and seeing what type of player he could have become but we have to accept it and move on. I wish Sean's family peace and I hope these individuals get punished to the fullest extent of the law and hopefully this story can serve as an example of how lives can be thrown away for nothing.
45 comments:
Tough break, but I don't think it was a perfect accident. It was probably an accident, but it was an accident waiting to happen.
Sean's stepsister was dating a cousin for one of the guys who was arrested and another one of the guys had attended a her birthday party at the house. This second guy apparently cut the grass at the house.
I still would not be surprised to hear that his stepsister was in on the robbery (or at least knew about it).
Sean Taylor died because of violent people who surrounded him and his family. It is not his fault, but that is a fact. Whatever the final details are about the case, Sean is gone and that is too bad.
Here is a question for you. If they didn't think the house was occupied, why did they bring a gun?
Why did they bring the gun? I really can't answer. Only God and those individuals know the answer. If I had to guess than I would say just to be "safe." Just to be sure in case someone was there. I am sure many burglars bring guns with them when they commit their crimes. I don't think they intend to use them but they keep it just in case they are confronted. I don't think these kids intended to use the gun. If they intended to kill Sean, then why not pump six rounds right in his chest. Why shoot him in the leg? I believe it was a burglary gone awry.
Frankly, it doesn't matter. Sean Taylor is gone. I still believe what I wrote above. I don't want to speculate much. I am sure more details will come out. We'll see if more arrests are made and who those individuals are and what their involvement was.
Robsobs' apathy is a little unsettling. "An accident waiting to happen"? Although you say it wasn't his fault, you don't do a good job of saying it wasn't his fault...In fact, you make it sound as though you think Taylor was partially to blame for his own murder.
Taylor came from a modest family and may have had some connections with less than ideal acquaintances, but how was he to know that the people he trusted to mow his lawn were potential murderers? Do you expect that he should have been worried about his stepsister's ex-boyfriend's cousin? Com'on man. Like Dark Helmet said in "Spaceballs," Sean Taylor's relationship with the people that committed this brutal crime was "absolutely nothing!"
Watching the game today was tough. It was tougher for Taylor's teammates to play. We may have lost, but I will say that I'm proud to be a 'Skins fan. The organization and the fans paid tribute to a fallen player the best way they could and although it was a sad day, it was handled with dignity and honor.
Deepie, I am not sure what you are talking about.
JKD said it was a perfect accident. I totally disagree. There were a lot of unsavory characters surrounding Sean and his family. It probably was an accident but as long as Sean kept himself intertwined with these "hangers-on" (including family members), he was in danger.
This is a true story - after JKD was born and we were living in Chicago, my Dad got mugged by a neighbor. That night he moved our family out to a friend's appartment and we never went back to live in that apartment.
I don't believe it is Sean's fault, but there are things he could have done to protect himself. He shouldn't have to, but he certainly could have. You can believe me to be apathetic, but I doubt you disagree with what I just wrote.
If you don't agree and want to have a pollyannish, sugar-coated belief that Sean was living a perfect life and there was no way of knowing danger was around him that is up to you. It is just plain wrong in my opinion.
How do you know how many "unsavory characters" there were that surrounded Sean? How do you know that he kept himself intertwined with these "hangers-on?"
I don't know him. I don't know who he associated with; however, by all accounts, he was trying to distance himself from his past.
Sure, Dad moved after the mugging. It was not like Sean lived in a rough part of town. He lived in a gated community in an affluent area of Miami. You should feel safe inside your home.
It doesn't really matter. You can speculate and believe what you want. I don't know the guy other than the player that he was. I will miss watching him play. He could have been one of the best at his position. Whatever, I still believe what I said. It was God's will that he die that night. There were a lot of things that just seemed to collide perfectly that morning (read it again if you need to). It is what I believe. You believe something else. That's fine.
How do I know he was intertwined with unsavory characters? Because at least 2 of the murderers knew his family and had direct ties to his sister and the house. By definition, that means that he was interwined with these people.
If I let you stay overnight in my house while I am away, and you have a bunch of criminal friends then I would be intertwined with those folks also. I did not say he was directly tied to them, but I would be shocked if he did not know that some of the people around him and his family had significant criminal records.
You're right, you should be safe in your house and there should not be bad people in the world, but life isn't always fair and there are bad people.
We both agree it is a senseless tragedy and that it wasn't Sean's fault. That said, there were things that Sean could have done (that I believe many people would have done) to make himself more safe.
I don't need to re-read what you wrote. You think it was just a perfect accident, and I disagree. Ultimately, it really doesn't matter that we disagree.
FYI, we didn't live in an overly rough part of Chicago either when Dad was mugged. We lived in student apartments on IIT's campus. The apartment was one block away from a police station and a hospital.
Student apartments on IIT's campus isn't the same as living in a gated community in an affluent neighborhood.
I know bad things happen. I know they happen everyday. I know life is not fair and I know that there are bad people out there.
Fine. If that is your definition of being intertwined with unsavory characters, I suppose you are right. If I invite a neighborhood kid over to mow my lawn and that individual ends up burglarizing my house, then based on your definition, I have intertwined myself with unsavory characters.
Who knows how well he knew those guys. Who knows what history those 18-19 year old kids have.
Again, it was all a tragic accident. Bottom line, he is gone and that is all there is to it.
FYI, middle class and upper-class houses are burglarized more often than lower income houses and apartments.
When I went to IIT, I'd take the train to 35th street where there were housing projects right across from IIT's campus and the train stop. Based on crime stats, I was far more likely to get mugged in Evanston around Northwestern's campus than I was to get mugged at 35th Street South.
Personally, I think Sean Taylor knew about a lot of unsavory folks that were associated with him and his family. That is my opinion, but it is far more likely than what you want to believe.
All 4 of the guys arrested had criminal records.
Also, there is supposedly a 5th suspect. I would not be surprised if it is Taylor's sister or another family member. Hopefully that isn't true, but all of the facts are still not out.
I don't know how many sisters he has but one of them eulogized him today. If that is his only sister, given her emotions and what she said, I find it very hard to believe she was part of anything associated with this crime.
His house was a good target. A football player's house that they thought was unoccupied. Would make sense that it could be seen as a target.
You said that there are number of things that he could have done to make himself more safe. What are those things?
Jazmin is not the sister - I believe it was Sasha who is tied to some of the murderers.
Here is what he could have done:
1. Get a security system.
2. Get a gun.
3. Sell the house.
4. Move his girlfriend and child up to DC.
5. Hire security guards.
6. Get a dog.
7. Not gone down to Miami when his bum knee.
8. Not stayed at the house when he knew it had been targeted.
Those are just a few things.
Because I think there were things that he could have done to better protect himself doesn't mean that I think it is his fault. It just means that there was more that he could have done to protect himself and his family.
You yourself just pointed out that the house was a good target. You must agree with me that at the very least he should have had a security system put in.
My house would be a good target. We live in a "safe" neighborhood. It's the kind of neighborhood that you feel comfortable leaving your doors unlocked (not that I do that). Taylor's house was a good target because he was a wealthy football player that wasn't supposed to be there. The house was supposed to be unoccupied.
Going to your points, none are really that great.
1. Is it firmly confirmed that he did not have a security system? If he didn't have one, who knows why. This is your best candidate of things to do. However, assuming there was none, maybe he didn't want one because it could have been a pain during the season if it goes off and he is not around.
2. Maybe after his incident in 2005, he did not want to carry a gun. I would never carry a gun.
3. Why sell the house?
4. I'm sure his girlfriend and daughter spent plenty of time up in D.C. but what if they don't want to move. I'm sure all of their family and friends are in Miami. It would be hard to move away from everyone you grew up with and away from your home. I love where I grew up and it would be very hard for me to leave this area.
5. Hire security guards 24 hours a day? I'm not sure how many players have 24 hour security guards.
6. Get a dog? Maybe he didn't like animals. Even if he had a dog. He lives in D.C. during the season. Chances are he would have put the dog in a kennel for the day or two while he was away and it would not have traveled with him to Miami.
7. Why not go to Miami? It was his option and he chose to do be with his fiancee and daughter. What's wrong with that?
8. How did he know it was targeted? Maybe he figured they had already burglarized it and it was a one time deal.
I'm not sure that he felt like he was a target. If he truly felt like a target and that his life was in jeopardy than some of those things you mentioned would be valid. Otherwise, why should he do those things? You should feel safe in your house. As mentioned, it was all God's will. It all worked out perfectly down to the gunshot hitting him perfectly. He was meant to go that morning.
OK, you're right, there was nothing he could do.
Never mind that his house was burglarized a week earlier. Just forget about the fact that Antrel Rolle talked about how Taylor had been targeted recently. Never mind that in 2006 Taylor had had his car shot up.
There just wasn't any reason to do anything and there was nothing he could really do.
I gave you possible things he could have done and you make excuses. I'm not really sure why you are arguing your point that essentially there was nothing he could do. I am quite certain that if you had been in Taylor's shoes you would have done something to protect yourself and your family. I know I would have. I know our Dad did.
Robs,
Seriously...Are you certain that you don't have any ties to people who could potentially harm you? Have you ever hired someone to work in your home? Do you know all of your relatives acquaintances well enough to know you don't ever want them to come into your home?
Sean Taylor associated with his family. He bought a home in a nice neighborhood close to Santana Moss's mother's home because he could and because he looked to her as a motherly figure. He was engaged to be married to Andy Garcia's niece. Those were the people he was associating with. If the guy who mowed his lawn or his step-sister's boyfriend's cousin happened to be at his home one day, how could that ever indicate to him that he was letting his eventual murderers into his inner-circle?
I agree that he should have taken some precautions, like activate his alarm system, or perhaps have better security in the form of guards, dogs, etc. but who's to say he didn't because he thought having dogs or guns around wouldn't be right considering he had his 18 month old daughter there? How do you know that he didn't consciously decide not to have a gun because it would violate his probation from his previous incident?
I didn't know the guy, but I won't jump to conclusions to say he did somethings that brought this on himself. You seem to be presuming too much my friend. If you heard any of the eulogies today, you would know that Taylor was a positive influence in many people's lives and not the type of person who associated or wanted to be around the type of scum that took his life.
Rob,
You DO speculate too much. You DO presume too much. Fine, you want to believe Rolle. You are willing to label and define Taylor's life on one or two incidents that happened 2-3 years ago.
What about the countless number of people that have pointed to the fact that Sean was a quiet person. That he was a home body. That he didn't go out and party all the time. That he loved football and loved kids. That he had become much more mature since the birth of his baby girl. What about these people? You may try to discount all of this and say it is just positive P.R. spin taking place at the time of his death. Again, I don't know Sean Taylor. I am sure he wasn't the perfect kid but I am not willing to label him or define him from one or two incidents. I think that is irresponsible and ignorant.
As I have said from the beginning, I will miss watching him play. He was arguably the best at his position and looked to become a perennial Pro Bowl player. It's just sad and disappointing that that career won't be realized.
As far as your claim that I made excuses, I didn't make excuses. If I felt like I was targeted, I would probably take some precautions but how do you know he felt targeted? You gave several precautions that he should have taken. Who knows what precautions he did take? Who knows if he actually felt threatened? All I did was provide a possible explanation for your precautions. Why should he leave his home? If he loves Miami and both his and his fiancee's family and friends are down there, why should he leave? I wouldn't. He did take the precaution of moving into an affluent neighborhood that was gated. I would have probably done something similar to feel more safe. It was all a perfect accident. It was God's will that this was supposed to happen.
As far as the unsavory characters, I have contractors in my house right now doing work. I don't know them. I talk to the main worker and he brings in his "guys" to do the work. I don't know them. They have access to my home. If one of them turns out to burglarize my home, will I have intertwined myself with unsavory characters? That is ridiculous.
If you had a large home and we were younger and you threw me a party and my friends and some friends of my friends came over and if some of those individuals were shady that you or I didn't know of, would you be intertwined with unsavory characters. It's ridiculous.
Again, I don't know the guy and that is why I am not willing to label him or define who he was as a person. You seem to be doing that. All I have said is that I will miss watching him play as he had the potential to be one of the greatest to play at his position. He exemplified all the attributes you would want to see in a football player. He was relentless, fearless, hard working, instinctive, athletic, intimidating, and just plain awesome. He was a joy to watch and it's too bad that his career/life was cut short at such a young age.
Two things -
Deeps, I don't believe that he "brought this on himself." I say he did not do enough to protect himself.
JKD, I have been very clear about specific incidents and related unsavory folks that surrounded him. You want to look the other way, which is perfectly fine with me. However, his house was just broken into and he did nothing to protect himself, his family, or his house (unless you think sleeping with a machete under the bed is enough).
If you really think you would do nothing given the same circumstances, then fine. I guess I would be the one who would call you to tell you to protect your family.
I'm not turning the other way. Again, your definition of "unsavory folks" is ridiculous. Again, I have contractors coming to my house everyday. I only deal with the boss but he brings in different guys everyday. If one of these guys scopes out my house and robs me then by your definition I have intertwined myself with "unsavory folks." That is ridiculous. We grew up knowing Nick and his buddies (some of whom spent time in the clink). Does that mean that our lives were intertwined with "unsavory folk?" We had a convicted murderer in our home when he was a child. Does that mean that our lives were intertwined with "unsavory folk?"
I have said that I am sure Sean Taylor wasn't the model person. Who is? I grew up in a well to do area with good family values and was surrounded by the most part by good people and I still did some things that could be considered shady when I was younger.
The point is that I don't know the guy personally. I don't know what he was involved in. By all accounts, he had changed his life. He had matured and become more religious. He had become a vegetarian. He was friendly to children. Again, I cannot confirm this. I do know that he seemed to change on the field. He didn't showboat like he used to. He just went out and played football and was having the best year of his career.
He was not a target in this case. His house was a target. It was a perfect accident. The culprits did not intend to kill him. They were surprised he was there and they shot him hitting him to perfectly sever his femoral artery. A quarter inch somewhere else, he is probably alive today. It worked out perfectly. He was meant to die that day.
I did enjoy this part of a eulogy in yesterday's funeral from the mayor of Florida City, "One of the things that I hope comes out of this tragedy is that the media get a small lesson in grace and humility. For those who took the liberty of recklessly speculating that this young man's death was caused by the way he lived, all I can say is they should be ashamed."
You can't assume. The media doesn't know him. You don't know him. If my house is broken into today, I don't feel the need to move out immediately and buy another place. Again, I would never have a gun in my house. You seem to think that he was a target and it was a matter of time before someone got to him. How do you know that? Is it because of what Rolle said? If it is, why listen to that one individual? Why not listen to the hundreds that have not agreed with that?
Again, I am not being naive and turning the other way. I am just saying that I don't know the guy or his lifestyle. From what I have heard, for me, there is no reason to believe that HE was a target for a hit so I don't believe there was a need for excessive security measures (gun, 24x7 security guards, guard dogs, etc.). From what I have heard, I also don't see a need for him to move away from his fiancee, friends, and family. That would be difficult. Is it confirmed that there was no security system in his house? That is the one thing that he should have had if he didn't. If he felt like a target, then he most definitely should have taken higher security measures but I have not heard/read anything that would make me believe that he was a target for a hit.
Long response, but you haven't added anything new.
These are facts - Sean Taylor was surrounded by folks who were trouble (not necessarily directly but it is a fact), could have done more to protect himself, but was not responsible for his death.
I don't believe "the media" should be assuming - they should be reporting. However, as human beings we all make assumptions about people we don't know. I have no problem with that.
You have made all kinds of assumptions about Tank and now seem to be taking an irritating "holier than thou" attitude.
I guess then by your definition of unsavory folk, I have intertwined with unsavory folk. Anytime I have work done at my house, I could be associating myself with unsavory folk despite the fact that I couldn't even tell you the names of the workers doing the work.
We can all do more to protect ourselves and our families. However, if we don't feel like we are threatened or a target, how much do we need to protect ourselves?
What assumptions did I make of Tank? Yes, I thought he was a thug. He demonstrated a trend of poor judgement. Here is part of the timeline of his events:
November 2005: Arrested outside a Chicago nightclub for possession of a handgun in his SUV. Pleads guilty to misdemeanor gun charge and sentenced to 18 months probation and 40 hours of community service.
February 2006: Charged with aggravated assault and resisting arrest after threatening a police office at a nightclub in Chicago. Charges were eventually dropped.
December 2006: Lake County, Ill., police search Johnson's home in Gurnee and discover he possessed six firearms, including six assault rifles. While Johnson was at practice during the raid, Johnson's bodyguard, William Posey, was arrested for alleged possession of marijuana. Johnson was charged with violation of probation and possession of unlicensed weapons.
December 2006: Just two days after Johnson's house was raided by police, his bodyguard was shot at a Chicago bar and eventually died.
Again, he showed a trend of poor judgement. He was given more opportunities than most people to correct himself. He chose not to. That is why the judge ordered him to jail, that is why he was suspended by the NFL, that is why his team (who was most tolerant) finally gave up on him. Now he has another opportunity. We all knew that he would. Hopefully he has corrected himself. I am not going to define his life on the above actions. If he can correct himself and become a positive person in society and a productive football player, he will have learned and become a better person. If he continues to struggle, he will show that he hasn't learned anything and he is a fool.
So again, I ask you to clarify when you said that I made "all kinds of assumptions" and that I have an irritating "holier than thou" attitude.
You had plenty of speculation when it came to Sean Taylor. This was some of your theories on what happened to him:
"1. This is payback from the kids he chased down a couple of years ago.
2. His wife/girlfriend (I don't know if he is married) found out he cheated on her and shot him in the nuts.
3. He got drunk and high and accidentally shot himself at 1:00 in the morning."
This type of speculation and assumptions is just plain ignorant.
Nothing new, but again you are falsely framing what I said about Taylor after the shooting.
In my original post after the shooting that you are quoting from I said, "The speculation will be wild until the details come out. Here are a couple that I thought of" and then I wrote what you point out. I did not theorize that these things happened, I gave you my initial thoughts. I always stated that we need to see what the details are, but that it would end badly.
Let's at least be clear and intellectually honest about what I said.
In your post, you are clearly making assumptions about Tank just like I have made assumptions about Sean. I don't see anything wrong with making assumptions, but for some reason you want to pretend that you don't make assumptions. It is that "holier than thou" hypocrisy that is so irritating.
I can list the times and dates of his DUI arrest, his assault where he was waving around his gun, the hit on his car where there were 15 bullet holes. But I don't need to because I admit to making assumptions.
So those three "possibilities" was your speculation on what others were speculating. Is that what you are saying?
Be aware that I am trying to be "intellectually" honest. I am not purposely trying to misrepresent you. If my interpretation of what you are saying is not what is your intention that is too bad. However, ultimately it is my interpretation.
You say that in my post I clearly made assumptions on Tank. What assumptions? I posted a sampling of his timeline. Those were facts.
Go ahead and list those things on Sean Taylor. Lets know the timeline. Seems to me those things happened more than 2 years ago. Can't a guy change? By all accounts from the people that knew him, they all said that over the last year or two he had matured and become a different person. He was also trying to distance himself from some people of his past.
Please provide the timeline because I can't seem to find where 15 bullets were pumped into Taylor's car in 2006. I DO see where 15 bullets hit is Yukon Denali in 2005 all stemming from his altercation regarding the stolen ATVs.
I will admit that that whole incident was dumb and he handled it the wrong way. He thought someone stole the ATVs. He searched that person out. He brandished a gun and threatened someone with the gun. He left. He came back and got into a fist fight with the person. He left and then someone came by and pumped bullets into his car.
The whole thing is stupid but it happened. It happened two and a half years ago. I am not going to label him or define his life by one day that took place. I don't know him. You admit to making assumptions. Well, based on all the people that knew him and talked about how he had changed and become more of a home body and become religious, can you not assume that he had turned his life around?
My mistake on the year of the Yukon being shot up. If you read Wilbon's article from last week he made the same mistake and said that it was in 2006. That is where I got it.
I re-read your stuff on Tank and you clearly make a number of assumptions. I really have no idea why you think you didn't. At the very least, you assume that Tank was involved in a fight that led to Posey getting shot. There is no evidence to support that. Second, you also made the assumption that Tank was using pot because there was some found on Posey. The notion that you have not made any assumptions about Tank is just plain silly.
On a lighter note, as I was reading your older posts on Tank I came across THIS. PRETTY FUNNY.
So it was one very bad isolated day in Sean Taylor's life that we are talking about. I am not going to minimize the seriousness of the events of that day but it is one day in his life. As I have said many times previously, I'm sure he didn't live the perfect life outside of that one day but I am not going to assume what kind of life he was living because I really don't know. The events of that one day are facts. It's also a fact that a number of people from various parts of Sean's life (teammates, friends, family) have come out and said that the guy was a good guy and had changed a lot in the last year. He was more mature, he had become more religious, he was trying to distance himself from some of his friends from the past, he was committed to his daughter and fiancee, he was committed to his profession, etc. I think it is fair to assume that he was changing his life. It's a credit to him. That's all that you can ask. The guy made mistakes but he was changing his life for the better. That is one of the reasons that makes this so tragic is that, by all accounts, he was becoming a better person.
List all the assumptions you claim I made regarding Tank.
As far as the two that you listed, I will take you for your word when you said that I assumed those things. It was a mistake on my part to assume that he was part of the fight where his best friend was killed. I don't think it was ever pointed out that he was at the scene so I can't make that assumption.
Regarding him using pot, I think that would be a pretty safe assumption. Yes, it's an assumption but when your best friend is smoking pot, I think it is pretty safe to say that Tank smoked with him at least once with him. Would you not agree with that?
Yes, pretty funny exchange.
What is your point?
Maybe Sean was changing maybe he wasn't. I have no idea but from what I have read it sounds like he was changing for the better. So what?
I just showed you where you made assumptions about Tank. I don't think I need to do it again.
Just to be clear here is my point - you are mistaken and hypocritical when you take the "holier-than-thou" attitude with me about making assumptions about people. You have been claiming that you don't do it, and I have showed you that you do.
Stop getting on my case about making assumptions and pretending that you don't do it.
You said that you don't think much of Sean Taylor. You thought he was a thug. You came up with a number of assumptions on him and his lifestyle.
My point was just that don't base his life on one day of his life. If you are going to assume, why not assume that he was turning his life around and he was becoming a better person and credit him for that?
You said I made "all kinds of assumptions" regarding Tank. In my reply, I posted a timeline of the events of Tank's issues and you replied that I made assumptions in my post. How did I make assumptions when all I did was provide a chronological timeline?
As far as the two assumptions you claim I made, I answered you. I said that the first one was a mistake and it was unfair of me to assume that he was part of the fight/shooting as I have no proof.
The second one seems legitimate. When your best friend partakes in smoking pot and I believe lived with Tank, would it not be reasonable to believe that Tank shared in some of the pot? I asked you this question before and you didn't answer it. Maybe you will answer it the second time I ask.
I don't have this holier than thou attitude that you are saying I have. That is your claim against me. If you want to believe that, fine with me. I am sure I have made assumptions in the past. However, your assumptions seemed to be based on a bad incident that happened in one day out of a person's life two and a half years ago. If you are going to make assumptions, why not make the assumptions based on the information that you hear today?
Whatever, dude. You think I am getting on your case then just leave it alone. Don't bother me about this anymore. You believe what you want and lets leave it at that.
The difference is that I have never claimed that I don't make assumptons. I have not backed away from my belief that Taylor was far from being a saint.
You keep saying that I am wrong for making assumptions and you continue to insist that you don't make assumptions. That is an absolutely, positively ridiculous and indefensible position for you. You have no proof that Tank uses pot, but you continue to assume that he did because Posey had some - THAT IS AN ASSUMPTION.
That is exactly why I believe you are being a hypocrite on this issue.
Here is my response to your whole question about, "When your best friend partakes in smoking pot and I believe lived with Tank, would it not be reasonable to believe that Tank shared in some of the pot?"
NO! NO! NO! NO! NO!
1. I lived with a guy who smoked pot regularly and who ingested psychodelic 'shrooms regularly for 2 years while I was in college. I never used drugs and our other roommate never used drugs. We were very close roommates and his drug use did not "rub off" on me or my other roommate.
2. As an NFL player, Tank faces random drug testing and to my knowledge he has never failed a drug test. That provides evidence to the contrary of your assumption.
But you keep claiming that your assumption is a good one about Tank's use of pot. For the reasons I have just stated, in my opinion, you are making a very bad and unsupported assumption.
When did I claim that I don't make assumptions? Where did I say that? In fact, I just wrote, "I am sure I have made assumptions in the past." So shut the F up about that.
My issue is that you make assumptions based mostly on one day out of an individual's life. Why not base your assumptions on more recent information?
Clearly, you emphatically disagree that it is even remotely possible that Tank ever engaged in smoking pot with his best friend.
Your example is not very good because your roommate was not your best friend. He was just your roommate. Sure, he was somewhat of a friend during the time you lived with him but you pretty much didn't talk to him once you weren't roommates with him. Even when he was your roommate, your friends were a different group. Sure, he would tag along but he wasn't even close to being your best friend.
Whatever. Again, you emphatically believe it is an impossibility that Tank could ever partake in smoking pot with his best friend. Point noted. I just find it interesting that that assumption is an impossibility but then you are willing to make certain assumptions on Sean Taylor.
You assume Sean Taylor deals with unsavory characters because he allowed a relative of one of his sister's friends (who he probably didn't even know) to come over to his house for a party. Tank has a much more direct tie to an unsavory character in Posey who carried firearms and drugs. Somehow you seem much willing to defend Tank than Sean.
Frankly, I don't give a shat anymore. Again, don't bother me with this. I understand your position.
Hilarious.
I'll make three points.
1. For the better part of 2 days and even going back to last week, you have been constantly criticizing me for making assumptions about Sean Taylor. You have been asking me constantly to list the assumptions you made about Tank - which must be because you did not think you made any. Now your argument has changed to where you make assumptions, but that somehow your assumptions are better - I think you are full of shat.
2. Jared was definitely one of my best friends in college. We played basketball and worked out every day. We ate dinner every day. We went to the same parties, we studied at the library, and just generally hung out every day for the 2 years we lived together. His drug use did not rub off on me.
3. Finally, as usual, you are changing my argument. I have not "emphatically" said that there is a "even a remote possibility" that Tank ever engaged in smoking pot with his best friend. I have said that I think that is a bad assumption and I gave you 2 good arguments for why that is a bad assumption. There is no reason to think that pot use rubbed off on him and the NFL drug testing program makes it highly unlikely to believe he was using illegal drugs.
What the F is wrong with you? Who is changing who's argument now?
1. I did criticize you for making the assumptions because I didn't think they were fair assumptions. Again, why base your assumptions on a single day that happened two and a half years ago? Why not base them off of more recent information?
You claimed I made all kinds of assumptions on Tank. I asked you to list all of the assumptions you claim I came up with so that I could seem them and defend myself. You came up with two. I NEVER said that I don't assume things. You are changing my words. I NEVER changed my argument. You're the one full of shat.
2. Fine, Jared was one of your best friends in college but he is not one of your best friends. I hung out with my roommates and went to eat with them, workout with them, party with them, etc. One of them used pot but I never considered my roommates my best friends. I didn't keep in touch with them after college. I didn't hang out with them on breaks. You just don't know the difference because you don't have any friends.
3. How am I changing your argument? When I asked, "When your best friend partakes in smoking pot and I believe lived with Tank, would it not be reasonable to believe that Tank shared in some of the pot?"
You responded with, "NO! NO! NO! NO! NO!"
Is that not emphatic? How am I changing your argument? You're full of shat, dude. I'm tired of it. You think you know everything.
I've said my part and just think you are flat out wrong on a lot of things. I'll leave it at that.
I feel the same way about you.
We'll leave it at that.
DEEPIE RULES!
Long story short...
Sean Taylor may have made some bad decisions in his past, but those decisions can't be the basis for characterizing him. Everyone does some things that they may regret as they mature. Taylor died before we ever got a chance to see who he really was, but if this were Tank who was killed, I don't think you'd see the outpouring of grief and respect that Sean Taylor received in death.
Tank had a history of thug-like behavior. You can't deny it. He may have changed as a result of his jail time and his suspension so maybe his days of resisting arrest and gun-toting are over.
Give it a rest and let time tell us who these guys are.
I totally disagree. I think Tank or any NFL player would get similar "star" treatment also. Darrent Williams had thousands at his funeral, including the whole Broncos team, other NFL players, Goodell, Upshaw, etc. We heard a lot about Taylor's funeral because he was a Redskins. In addition, because he went to the U he had a larger extended NFL family than some players.
I'm not hear to defend Tank, but he never threatened anyone with a gun. He never beat anyone up and he never faced criminal charges for anything.
You guys keep saying Tank was a thug, but he didn't do anything to warrant that. You want to dismiss Taylor's actions which is fine, but don't pretend that Tank did something worse than Taylor. That is just plain false.
Robs,
Sean Taylor did something stupid when he had his property stolen from him, but he was a 21-22 year old kid at the time. I have to believe that even I would probably go after someone who I believed stole something of mine if I were young, immature, and as physically imposing as Taylor was. He was caught and punished for what he did, but it's not like he had a history of bad behavior. In fact, his punishment was pretty lenient because he had no previous history.
Prior to Tank's arrest for stockpiling enough weapons to arm a small militia, his transgressions included the following.
"The latest run-in with the police is already Tank Johnson's third since he joined the Bears in 2004. In June 2005, Johnson was arrested at Excalibur after a valet saw him stick a gun in the center console of his SUV. He followed that up with an arrest outside Level for aggravated assault and resisting arrest after police attempted to ticket the limo waiting for him."
According to the police report, Johnson was arrested near the Level night club around 3:45am when an officer attempted to issue a citation to Johnson because a limo he'd hired was obstructing traffic.
http://chicagoist.com/2006/12/15/
tank_johnson_arrested_again.php
"Johnson said what are probably the words least likely thing to get you out of a ticket when he informed the cop, 'You ain't the only one with a Glock. If it wasn't for your gun and your badge, I'd kick your ass.'"
http://chicagoist.com/2006/02/13/
tank_johnson_in_trouble_with_the_
law_again.php
If you want to claim that's not thug-like behavior, then I'd hate to find out what you are willing to let your kids get away with.
He didn't threaten anyone with a gun. No charges of assault have ever been filed against him. His weapons violations were misdemeanors. If he had just spent the time to license the guns he would not have anything on his record. Owning the guns was not illegal, not registering them was the problem.
Whatever you want to say, everything Tank has done is a far cry from what Taylor did.
I haven't looked it up, but Tank and Taylor must have been about the same age. For Taylor you want to excuse him by just blaming it on youth. For Tank's lesser transgressions you want to call him a thug. That's up to you but it is unfair.
Wrong, RobsObs.
"February 2006: Charged with aggravated assault and resisting arrest after threatening a police officer at a nightclub in Chicago. Charges were eventually dropped."
Yes, the charges were dropped but he was charged nonetheless with aggravated assault and resisting arrest after threatening a police officer.
I don't excuse Sean Taylor for that incident. It was a terrible incident. However, it was one incident. Tank has had continued run ins with the law and his best friend was an "unsavory character." By all accounts, Sean had turned his life around. He did not show a trend of misbehavior that Tank displayed.
Again, I am not excusing Sean for that incident but people change and learn and that is what seemed to happen to Sean so I have to appreciate that.
Tank showed a trend of poor judgement. He was given every opportunity by his team to rectify his issues. He still didn't learn and that is why they ultimately let him go.
Again, we all knew he would get another opportunity some where else. Hopefully he can make better decisions and get his life in order.
FYI - Tank was 24 years old when he had his incident with the police officer.
Sean Taylor was 24 years old when he died.
Fine. Even though Tank spent time in the clink he didn't do anything worse than what Taylor did. Even though Taylor was sentenced to community service hours and had no previous history and clearly started improving his lifestyle, his behavior was just as thuggish as Tank's.
That makes perfect sense.
As I said before, the jail time and suspension may have gotten through to Tank and he may be a changed man now. I believed he had changed prior to the Bears cutting him. When he was cut, I wouldn't have minded if the 'Skins went after him because I believe he understood that he was in the wrong...But to compare his history of transgressions with Taylor's is a stretch.
Post a Comment