I am thoroughly disappointed with the Redskins performance on Sunday against the Pats. I wasn't foolish enough to believe we were going to win the game but I hoped that we could compete and we were dominated in every sense of the word. Now I don't believe we are as bad as that performance. However, we just did not represent. Offense, defense, and special teams were just outplayed.
The defense just couldn't stop Brady and company. It's disappointing our defense couldn't step up and do a better job. That was the strong point of our team but you wouldn't have guessed it by that performance. You can be certain that our #3 ranking will go WAY down.
The offense couldn't do much better. They started out with a decent opening drive as we were able to move the ball and get a few first downs before the drive stalled but that was about it. Campbell was bad. Sure he is facing what looks to be one of the best teams in history but I just as the rest of the team, I was hoping for more. What was really disappointing was the fumbles. He had time and he should have sensed the pressure and he just lost the balls. There isn't much excuse for that. His passes for the most part were fine but he has got to work on protecting the ball. I can understand if he is hit on the blindside or if the pocket just collapses immediately but that wasn't the case. The only thing I can hope for with Campbell is that he can learn from this game. Hopefully he takes it that way. There are a number of lessons to be learned for him and hopefully he grows from it.
We are 4-3 and have to go on the road again against the Jets next week. It will be interesting to see how we bounce back from this loss. Given the strength of our division, next week's game is a must win. Hopefully the team can put this loss behind us and get back on the winning track. A loss next week would be crushing. We'll see what happens.
Again, I am thoroughly disappointed in this performance.
51 comments:
After watching this game, I am convinced that defenses are only capable of stopping offenses when they are able to exploit the opposing offense's mistakes. The Pats made no mistakes. We couldn't stop 'em.
I don't think we're a bad team, but we're not a good team. Fortunately, there aren't many good teams in the NFC. We still have a shot, but our offense has to start producing. This weekly lack of output is really irritating.
Campbell was not very good today. You're right. He needs to feel the rush better and protect the ball. He didn't make many bad throws, which was promising, but the fumbles were bad. The problem is correctable though.
I'm not worried about the defense. Like I said, you can't stop what can't be stopped. You do have to be able to score to stay in games. It's all on the offense.
Disagree. It was a total team loss. Our defense has got to be better. I know we are not as bad as that score. We just did not show up. Yes, the offense has to pick it up. Campbell DEFINITELY has to learn how to hold on to the ball. Again, the fumbles were inexcusable. He had time and he should have felt the pressure and he needs to protect the ball.
Still, I am disappointed in the entire team and coaching staff. We were not prepared and our defense could not contain them at all. Yes, it's the Patriots and they are a machine. They are on record setting paces and look to be one of the best teams in history but we have to have a better showing than what we did.
My soul hurts.
If I'm disappointed in any group on the team, it's the coaching staff. Once again, the offense was unprepared and I think Double G's ego got the best of him again. I'm certain he went into the game thinking he could outsmart Brady.
As much money as the coaching staff makes, it is really disappointing to see how unprepared we were yesterday. Comments like Gibbsy's about us being the biggest underdog in history don't help instill confidence either. If the leader of the team doesn't exude confidence, how will the team?
J.C.'s technique will improve. I have confidence in his ability. I think the defense can bounce back. It was a poor defensive game plan, and having Smoot out and having Rogers get hurt early didn't help.
We're an 8-8 to 10-6 team. There's a HUGE gap between good teams like ours and the Patriots/Colts...no need to be too discouraged by a reality check.
I too am disappointed with the coaching staff. We just weren't prepared. Don't have a problem with Gibbsy saying that we were HUGE underdogs. He doesn't want to give the Pats any more ammunition against us by being cocky - plus that's just not his style. Would be more curious how he is when he talks privately to the team.
I am not down on JC. Yeah, I am disappointed in the fumbles but I am still happy with his overall play and believe he will be a solid QB. As Aikman mentioned during the game, this will be a good learning experience for him and hopefully he can grow from it.
I also still hold on to my prediction of going 9-7 this year. We are a decent team. However, the Pats are a machine and more and more looking like one of the best teams in NFL history.
This week's game is a must win. We have to bounce back against the Jets to feel better about ourselves and also keep pace with the divsion and the overall playoff picture. A loss against the Jets would be devastating.
Deeps, what is your adjusted QB rating for JC this week?
He finished with a 71.2, but I would argue that it was much worse than that.
This is a perfect example of how things balance out through the course of the year. You say his rating was a little too low against Miami, I would say that his rating was too high given his performance this week. In the end, it all evens out.
About the game, it went about as I expected. I wouldn't get too down about the score and what happened in this single game because you are talking about a Patriots team that is playing better than any team over an 8 game stretch in NFL history. However, there are some fairly bad things to worry about for Redskin fans.
First, the O-line woes make it difficult to compete. They cannot run the ball and pass blocking errors lead to turnovers. This is an ongoing problem.
Second, the loss of Double Move and the fact that Smoot cannot play point to a problem with the secondary that teams will exploit.
Third, inconsistent QB play. In 7 games, JC has more fumbles than Rex did all of last year. He made some bad throws and really has not had a good game in a couple of weeks. In fact, he only has one really, really good game.
Should we start using the "Good JC/Bad JC" moniker yet?
I think the rating is okay. Outside of the fumbles, he didn't play that poorly. The fumbles are inexcusable and I didn't like that. However, I don't have a huge problem with his passes. I am okay with the rating and again, outside of the fumbles, thought he played pretty well against the Pats in NE.
Again, I am not too down about the game. I expected to lose. I just didn't expect to lose so badly. As mentioned, I don't think we are as bad as the score indicated. We just didn't perform in any way but we are better than that. I said the same thing when we beat the Lions. I didn't think the Lions were as bad as the score indicated. We just caught them on a bad day and we executed very well.
As far as the issues you brought up, O-line is somewhat of an issue. We need better running but I can't put the fumbles on the O-line. JC had time and has to learn to either throw it away or protect the ball and take the sack.
The secondary is okay. Smoot will be back and Springs, Landry, and Taylor are very good. You never liked Rogers anyway so why would you care that he is out?
JC is fine. He needs help from the entire offense. It's the offense as a whole that needs to pick it up - not JC. Again, outside of the fumbles, I am okay with his play.
Like it or not, his performance is lower than Rex. See, it is just what I have been talking about. You have to expect young QBs to take their licks, have moments of inconsistency, and develop properly.
JC is not producing like Rex did. At the very least it is clear he is not doing anything better than Rex. He is having his ups and downs, but a couple of more "OK" performances like the one we saw yesterday and you'll see the same B.S. that fans always pull out - change the QB he stinks!
Saluti dall'Italia!
Ciao!
If he keeps fumbling like that, I don't doubt there will be boos. However, outside of the fumbles, he was fine. Again, the entire offense is struggling.
We have talked at nauseum on the comparison b/t Rexy and JC so I won't go there again. Clearly, we just don't see eye to eye with that and YOU (RobsObs) are in the minority.
If Rex had 3 fumbles and that lofted pass into double coverage that was intercepted, you'd treat it differently. There is no way you would call that an "OK" performance for Rex.
I love your double standard. See, for me, I am very comfortable with the way JC is playing. The inconsistency was what I expected.
There's nothing to adjust regarding his passer rating. The one bad pass he threw was picked off. He had some overthrows and was a little erratic at times. All that is reflected in his passer rating.
The problem was the fumbles. He needs to hold onto the ball...plain and simple.
It wasn't a good game for him or for the offense in general. The o-line is a mess and as a result everything else is shaky.
No adjustment? So you think a 71 is an accurate reflection of how he played? Very generous in my opinion.
First of all, by definition, the 3 fumbles don't count toward his QB rating. Yet, one fumble was returned for a TD, one led to a TD, and one to a field goal. Fumbles are just as bad as interceptions.
Second, his first pass should have been picked off. It was right in the hands of a D lineman.
Third, getting a trash TD and 70 of his sub-200 yards in the final 5 minutes when he is losing 52-0 and the Patriots are playing prevent with second teamers to push the QB rating up 30 points is not exactly playing at a 71 rating level.
If you ask me, his 71 was artificially high given how he played. You have a lot of fans today talking about his poor performance on 980.
There you go again with the whole 980 thing. Seriously, dude, you should just worry about your destructing Bears.
We have already recognized that the fumbles were unacceptable. What more do you want us to say about that? So what if he scored the TD late? What is he supposed to do at that point? Throw it away? Throw for an INT? Fumble some more? What do you want from him? Again, just so it is clear, I AM DISAPPOINTED WITH THE FUMBLES!!! THOSE WERE UNACCEPTABLE!!!!
I apologize because I missed the INT so I can't really comment on that pass. However, I am comfortable with his play outside of those fumbles. It wasn't just him. It's the ENTIRE offense. The running game is stalling - both the RBs and the O-line need to play better.
As far as the 980 stuff, I listened to Jake and Larry this morning and was just listening to Riggo and no one not the hosts nor the callers were calling for JC's head. The blame was on the offense AND really, the entire team. Sure, it was recognized that it was JC's worst performance as a pro but it was tempered with it's the Pats. So please don't start up with the fans are uprising against JC.
I already said (you probably missed it since you don't read carefully) that if JC continues with his fumbling problems, you will definitely hear the boo birds for him but he has not done anything to jeopardize his status with the team. Believe me, you will know when it is time for JC to be replaced because MOST of the fans, critics, media, etc. will be calling for his head for poor play (see Rexy Grossman). However, I am comfortable with JC right now. I respect Troy Aikman and think he is one of the best broadcasters out there and I agree when he says that this will be a learning experience for JC and that he too thinks that JC will become a solid QB in this league.
Do you admit to having a different standard for Rex? That is THE ONLY THING we are arguing at this point.
I am the one who applies the same standard for both Rex and JC.
FYI, Jake and Larry, as well as Riggo, are on 720. That is the station that is owned by Danny Boy.
Remember Frank Herzog? When he criticized some of the play calling he got fired for it. Larry Michael is a tool. 720 carefully screens calls because Danny Boy doesn't want negative info to go out over his radio station.
If you want to hear what the real fans think, listen to 980. It is quite revealing. Charley Taylor was on this afternoon and he was quite critical of the passiveness with which JC plays. MANY fans were quite negative because they felt that he was not a leader.
No. I don't have a different standard for JC. I am critical of his fumbles and find them unacceptable just as I did Rexy. What more do you want? How am I showing that I hold each to a different standard?
I did not hear Charley Taylor's comments and I can't really speak towards the "MANY" callers that called in complaining JC wasn't more of a leader since I didn't hear that either. However, that is ridiculous to say that. JC is 25 years old and started his 14th game. The loss cannot be pinned on him. Anyone that says that we lost because of JC is a moron. It was a total team loss. The team and coaches were outplayed and outcoached.
Our defense could not stop them at all. The Pats offense is a machine and they are proving that it doesn't matter who they play, they can do whatever they want to you. I am unhappy withe JC's fumbles but am comfortable with the rest of his play.
These callers...how did they want JC to exemplify his leadership? The guy stood up after the game and said that he did play well and that he (as well as the team) have to bounce back and step up and not feel this way again. There's leadership. I don't understand what these fans wanted from him. Please explain since you heard them. Also, I assume since you hold JC and Rexy to the same standards, you think these callers are ridiculous. Is that correct?
As far as what I DID hear, Jake, Larry, and Riggo were all pretty critical of the play but like me, they didn't really pin the blame on any one facet/player. Blame was spread to the entire team. Bram Weinstein (the Redskins beat reporter) is always critical and he too passed the blame to everyone.
I did watch some Comcast post game last night and the feelings were the same as what I mentioned. It wasn't one or two individuals that cost us the game.
I will try and listen to more 980 to see what they are saying over there.
Yeah, for Rex they are boneheaded mistakes. For JC, he played OK. No double standard there.
In the end, JC is going to have a worse TD to Int ratio and he is going to have more fumbles. The latter is a cold hard fact, we'll see about the former.
JC is not a natural leader of men. He is a cool cat that tries to lead by example. When someone misses a block or an assignment, he doesn't get in anyone's face. He also does not express what he wants to do to the coaches. He just does as he is told. I think that is what people were on him about.
Campbell's play overall has been decent this season. In this game it was crap. But we have to remember that the performance of quarterbacks and running backs is dependent upon the ability of the O-line to block and we don't have an O-line anymore. If you suddenly gave Tom Brady the O-line of the Redskins he'd play like doo doo too. But given a good line anyone can play well. Mark Rypien can play well!!!
Tom Brady on this Redskin team would result in at least 3 additional wins.
Which, given your 7-9 prediction, would be a 10-6 season with Brady...Still not great. Translation...It has more to do than just the QB play!
Seriously RobsObs, what do you want from us 'Skins fans? Do you believe that by saying a 71 rating is accurate, I am not being critical of JC? A 71 rating is pretty average or even bad if you ask me. He played poorly in this game. His passes weren't bad, but he did nothing spectacular. He fumbled three times and, therefore, his overall play was poor.
JC still hasn't started an entire season's worth of games. He's 7 games into his first season as the starter. He has a decimated o-line in front of him, no running game support, and a flawed offensive scheme with no sense of identity. He's 4-3 and by all accounts, he is the leader in the huddle. Was Brady in his teammates faces his first season? I can't say for certain, but I'm sure the firey leadership he shows now wasn't something he showed his first season as the starter.
Regarding 980...I was listening to the John Thompson show yesterday and he and B. Mitch were outraged at the types of comments some 'Skins fans were making. Getting blown out brought out the worst in 'Skins Nation. Fans who call into radio shows are fickle and inconsistent in their opinions. One day Gibbs is the savior. The next day they want his head on a stick. If we turn things around against the Jets, you won't hear anything about JC's inability to lead because the truth of the matter is he's been the only source of consistency on the offense. He had one bad day along with the rest of the offense.
Here is my point - for Rex there is a different standard. He basically had the same number of starts as JC going into last season and he performed.
He had inconsistent games.
But, he performed at a very high level in many games.
JKD keeps talking about how he made bone-headed mistakes, but when I point out the stats, facts, and comparisons to JC then there is a different standard.
All I say is be fair and consistent - 3 fumbles and an interception results in an "OK game" for JC, but for Rex it is atrocious. For me, I have no problem with JC and expected him to have ups and downs. He may have had only one bad day, but he has only had one great day also. Everything else has been mediocre.
WHAT DOUBLE STANDARD?! Why don't you understand?!! I have said that the fumbles are inexcusable! How can I make myself more clear! They were boneheaded mistakes! He had time and the rush wasn't from his blindside. He has to be able to feel/see the rush and either protect the ball and take the sack or throw it away. I have said that throughout this post. So, again, what double standard!
I have also said that if JC continues to fumble like that, you will hear the boo birds and I will be even more critical of him. Again, what double standard are you talking about!
Other than the fumbles, I don't have any problem with JC's play. He went up against perhaps the best team in NFL history with a broken down O-line and lack of running game. Rexy had the luxury last year of having a good O-line and solid running game AND a great defense that didn't put a whole lot of pressure on the offense to win games. Again, look deeper than the numbers.
I have no problem with JC's play other than those fumbles. Again, if that persists I will have a bigger problem with him.
I don't know what double standard you are talking about. Explain!
Who said it was an "OK" game? JKD, Matar, and I acknowledged that he performed poorly on Sunday. I just said, "A 71 rating is pretty average or even bad if you ask me. He played poorly in this game. His passes weren't bad, but he did nothing spectacular. He fumbled three times and, therefore, his overall play was poor."
You keep ignoring the fact that when Rex was up and down, his running backs and o-line, and receivers, and special teams, and defense were there to bail him out more often than not. Yes he played well against Tampa and bailed his team out, but that's what a QB needs to do.
JC has no o-line, no running game, a flawed offensive scheme, and a coach who has admitted to going ultra conservative with two touchdown leads. He doesn't have the support system that Rexy had last year when we were critical of his play.
Do you really think that expert analysts like Jaworski and Aikman who have seen him play and are paid to analyze how he plays would say he is going to be a very good QB if he was playing with the mediocrity you accuse him of? Com'on, Man. Stop kidding yourself.
This is what JKD wrote in one of his posts above:
"I think the rating is okay. Outside of the fumbles, he didn't play that poorly. The fumbles are inexcusable and I didn't like that. However, I don't have a huge problem with his passes. I am okay with the rating and again, outside of the fumbles, thought he played pretty well against the Pats in NE."
If Rex had the kind of game JC had with 4 turnovers and looking as lost as he did, it would be all about "his bone-headed mistakes."
THAT IS THE DOUBLE STANDARD YOU HAVE.
Excuses, excuses. In 7 games, he has 6 interceptions and only 6 TDs. He has 8 fumbles (4 lost).
Here is something to consider:
Rex: 1.44 TD/game, 1.56 turnovers/game
JC: 0.86 TD/game, 1.43 turnovers/game
We'll see how the season stats turn out.
And, yeah, I would expect analysts to say he could be a good player. They said the same about Rex. I believe that JC can be a good player, just like I believe that Rex can be a good player. I am the one who is consistent in saying it. JKD uses different standards.
Look, it is way too early to proclaim JC a bust or a god. But, how many 250 yard passing days does he have? 1 (we'll count his 248 yard day against Detroit). 2 if you want to count his game against Green Bay with all of the drops (he had 217 yards).
How many sub-200 yard passing days does he have? 7 (50%)
He is not getting sacked an inordinate number of times. In fact, his sack number is fairly average for the NFL.
6 TDs and 6 ints in 7 games.
8 fumbles with 4 lost (he needs to get used to NFL "schlack") in 7 games.
The stats are clear and if you are honest in assessing his play so far, he has been a mediocre QB.
Fine. Given the circumstances, he has been mediocre. The difference is, given the circumstances last year, Rex was a liability more than an asset. Aside from this Pats game, JC has been THE source of stability on offense. The o-line has crumbled, yet he avoids sacks. The running game has regressed, yet he manages to keep the ultra-conservative team in games. The receivers keep dropping balls, but he keeps his composure and keeps his mistakes to a minimum. Yes, he fumbled 3 times in a game, but that problem is correctable. We'll just have to see if he corrects the problem.
Frankly, if you look at the rushing games of the Bears last year and the Redskins this year, there is little difference.
The Bears were ranked #15 in rush yards/game with 119 yards/game.
The Redskins are ranked #18 with 105 yards/game.
Rex was sacked 21 times in 16 games, JC has been sacked 12 times in 7 games. We'll see how it ends up, but I doubt there will be much difference in the sack numbers when all is said and done.
Rex basically got the same production out of his running game and his O-line as JC is getting. There is no reason to use those factors for excuses because they are comparable for the Bears last year and the Redskins this year.
You just can't open your mind to the possibility that factors outside of the player's own performance can influence his numbers, can you?
Last year Jones/Benson averaged 4.1 yards a carry and had nearly 1900 yards rushing. The offense benefited from a defense and special teams that constantly gave them a short field to work with. Rex had it good.
The '07 'Skins are averaging 3.52 YPC. Portis and Betts are career 4.6 and 4.2 YPC backs who are averaging 3.8 and 2.9 YPC this season. Clearly something is wrong with the offense, but you keep twisting your numbers to make a ridiculous argument.
The 'Skins have no O-line. Nearly all of the sacks and fumbles JC's had have come AFTER Wade and Heyer and Rabach got hurt in the Packers game. Their main pulling guard, Thomas, is out for a few more weeks so the running game is affected. JC can't drop back and sit in the pocket to find receivers because the protection isn't there...THERFORE, Gibbs has gone conservative with the game plan. If you don't understand how these factors could affect JC's production, you just don't understand football.
Stop hiding behind your numbers. We can see right through them.
GEEZ, dude! What is your problem?! I stand by my quote that you reposted. What is wrong with that? Where is the double standard?! I still don't see it. I am very critical of the fumbles. If he continues doing that, I will be on him. Where is the freaking double standard?!
I can't figure you out. You are willing to forget the numbers with Benson but you are all about the numbers with JC. Look at your double standard.
Are you willing to forget the ultra conservative game plan against the Cards? You posted up the average rushing yards per game but look at the trend.
Detroit: 118 yards
GB: 94 yards
Cards: 73 yards
Pats: 47 yards
The rushing game is sputtering as is the entire offense.
Yes, Campbell's play has been mediocre but look at what's happening around him too.
As far as him getting in the face of people. That's ridiculous. You don't need to be an "in your face" kind of person to be a leader. From everything you read and hear (you should be okay with this given your belief in Tom Thayer), he is a leader on that team.
Get over it dude. You have double standards that you won't admit to and you are accusing me of double standards when it isn't true.
I don't mind one bad game by Rexy but when he performs SO inconsistently and makes very poor decisions on a regular basis, that is a problem and I (along with MOST everyone) will be critical. The same is true for JC. I (along with MOST everyone) believe in him and believe he has played pretty well so far. Again, I am not happy with the fumbles and like MOST everyone understand that that needs to be corrected.
What is your problem?
Probably just better to give up trying to explain to RobsObs. I genuinely believe he believes in his arguments but like any politician, he can twist his numbers appropriately and he is not open to understanding the root causes of certain events.
JKD, you don't even give numbers. You just believe whatever "your gut" tells you. When faced with facts and evidence that runs counter to "your gut" you just dismiss the facts and continue to go with "your gut." That is not being objective, that is being an ideologue.
At least we agree that Campbell has been mediocre.
Deeps, the Bears averaged 3.8 yards/carry and 120 yards/game last year. The Redskins are averaging 3.5 yards/carry and 105 yards/game this year. Those are facts. We'll see what the numbers look like at the end of the year, but my guess is that they won't be that far off.
You argue that Rex benefited from the running game. Your basic premise seems to be that he ONLY benefited and did not help the running game. But you seem to be excluding the possibility that his ability to throw the long ball and complete long passes helped open up the running game.
I'm perfectly willing to wait and see on JC. But, you are the ones who are irrational. Just look at your arguments. Essentially anything good that Rex did was lucky and/or the result of others (defense, special teams, running game, etc.). However, everything Rex did wrong was only his fault. ON THE OTHER HAND, for JC, his weak numbers are the result of bad luck and the poor performance of others (line, coaches, running game, etc.). But then you want to give him credit for everything good that he does.
That, my friends, is the double standard that you apply. I have not done that - it is only you guys that have been applying different standards.
JKD, let me ask you a simple question. Did JC have a good, mediocre, or bad game against the Patriots?
Don't qualify your response, just pick one of the three choices.
RobsObs...going back to your comments directed to me...
Please, for God's sake, stop discounting all other factors when you bring up numbers. I'm going to say it one last time...Numbers only tell half of the story and your insistent use of numbers to explain away everything that is going on has become nauseating. You constantly claim to be presenting facts, and by definition you are, but you are manipulating numbers to present a viewpoint that is so far from reality that your argument is ridiculous. If you expect me to believe your "facts," then you must agree that because the 'Skins have won 3 Super Bowls and the Bears have won only 1, the 'Skins are a better franchise. It's a stupid argument, but that's how you keep coming across. So, for sanity's sake, give it up!
The 'Skins running game was tremendous for two weeks when the line was largely intact. Jansen went out in week 1. Thomas went out in week 2. Since then, the 'Skins running attack has been on the decline. If you're going to assess their running game in terms of what to expect in the upcoming weeks, take those two games out because they are not representative of how things are. From week 3 on, the 'Skins are averaging 3 yards a carry and 83 yards a game. The line is in shambles and there is an obvious impact on the running game and, as a result, JC's potential output has regressed. Like it or not, it's a fact regardless of the numbers.
Going back to Rexy and your belief that us 'Skins fans have nothing good to say about him...In '06, Rexy did a great job finding receivers deep down field. I won't dispute that. He has an excellent deep touch. This still doesn't negate the fact that he was highly erratic. His bad games weren't just bad. As Charles Barkley likes to say, they were "terrbull." He made bad decisions with consistency and THAT is what JC has not done. Yes, JC has been mediocre in the last few weeks. His play has not lifted the offense, but he has not made bad decisions. Overthrows and misreading defenses to make throws to a receiver who may not be as open as the next are not critical, game changing mistakes like Rexy's Jekyll and Hyde performances. They point to mediocre play, but they pale in comparison in terms of "bone-headed" plays and that is why you haven't heard an analyst say JC is not a star in the making. Tarvaris Jackson has been playing all season in Minnesota. He can't make plays and in 1/2 season, the analysts have already torn him apart and discarded him like they were doing to Rexy. That hasn't happened with JC and there is a very good reason for that. HE IS BRINGING STABILITY TO THE QB POSITION IN WASHINGTON.
I'm done.
Again, well said, Deepie. I don't know why RobsObs can't comprehend this message. What Deepie and I try to convey is the prevailing feeling amongst the majority of the NFL viewing community, the fans, the critics, the analysts, the reporters, etc.
As far as your comments to me, because of the fumbles, it was a bad game. Remove the fumbles, it was a mediocre game. JC did not lose that game for the 'Skins. It was an entire team beat down. Would you agree with that? Can you answer this question PLEASE? Just one time, answer one of my freaking questions.
As far as the numbers, I give you numbers. I give you numbers on the Redskins running game. I give you numbers on JC's performances. I give you numbers on Benson's numbers. You seem to love numbers unless it comes to Tom Thayer's comments whose words you will take as the gospel. Well, what about reading the coaches gameplan for the week and how they want it to be ultra conservative? Will that not play a part into JC's performance? Aikman was on your favorite radio station 980 yesterday and again was talking about how much he likes JC and thinks he will become a solid QB in the NFL. He criticized Gibbs for not allowing JC to take shots downfield.
You are the one with the double standard. You shot yourself in the foot with the whole Tom Thayer thing.
I give up. We all agree he has been mediocre the last few weeks.
As the season wears on, we'll see what his stats are and what his "more accurate" stats are according to Deeps.
Then, at the end of the season we'll compare Rex and JC. Of course, you will blame Rex for everything wrong. But for JC you'll have your excuses. So we can then wait until next year and look at his stats next year.
Of course, you didn't answer my question. What else is new?
I have been critical of JC for his fumbles. If he throws bad INTs, fumbles more, and in general makes poor decisions, I will be highly critical just the way I was with Rexy. THERE IS NO DOUBLE STANDARD.
If his INTs are a result of receivers having the ball fly through their hands, giving up on the ball, or other issues than I can't put that on JC. I will fault the receivers. I thought I did that for Rexy. Again, I would love to sit down with all of Rexy's turnovers WITH YOU and we could go through which were poor decisions and which were turnovers that weren't necessarily his fault. I don't think this will happen but I would love to do that if possible.
Let me be clear.
Stats are stats. They can't be altered. My "more accurate" analysis simply takes obvious external factors into account. It's the Porter's 5-forces approach to evaluating performance. If you don't like it, tough noogies. It is more accurate, and that's a fact.
RobsObs,
Since we intend to compare JC to Rexy, why don't you do a game by game breakdown of Rexy's games last year and rate his performance on your scale of good, mediocre, or bad. Just list all 19 games and give a rating. We'll then have something to compare JC to because given that Rexy's Bears career is over, there's no other way to compare them.
Let me remind you...Stats only tell half the story!
Deeps, if I get a chance, I'll post something on my website on Rex's games last year. I'm sure I have done it in the past, but I'll try to put something together.
What do you mean about the "Porter's 5-Forces approach?" I am not clear about that.
JKD - it was a beat down, but JC's miscues directly killed the team while the game was still manageable.
1. With the Redskins down 14-0, he was hit and fumbled on his own 25 yard line. D comes up big and holds them to a field goal. Result field goal Pats (17-0).
2. Next drive, the Redskins needing momentum he throws the dead duck that is intercepted.
3. Again, the D cleaned up the interception mistake by forcing a fumble on the first Pats play. They give the Redskins O great field position at the Pats 45 and what does JC do? Fumble. Pats go down and score another TD (Pats 24-0) and the game is over.
4. Halftime hits (mercifully), but if he had held on to the ball the Redskins get a field goal and it is a 17-3 game with the D still playing fairly well.
5. Second half, the Pats get the ball first and score a TD to make it 31-0.
6. First Redskin drive of the second half with them trailing 31-0 what does JC do? Fumble at his own 11 yard line and have it go in for a TD. Pats up 38-0.
It was a beat down and the Redskins were not going to win, but if he makes a couple of plays at least it is competitive. He cost them at least a field goal and 10 more points on fumbles. One of his fumbles still required the Pats to 73 yards so that can go on the D. But he cost them at least 13 points in the first 35 minutes of the game.
I have acknowledged the fumbles a number of times and said that they were inexcusable. I have further called them boneheaded mistakes. I have said multiple times that despite the makeshift line, JC is responsible for protecting the football. He should have either tucked it away and taken the sack OR thrown the ball away. AGAIN, I HAVE ACKNOWLEDGED THE FUMBLES AND BEEN CRITICAL OF HIM FOR THAT.
Still, JC is not responsible for giving up nearly 500 yards of offense to the Pats. He is not responsible for giving up 334 yards passing to the Pats. He is not responsible for giving up 150+ yards rushing to the Pats.
Again, even on his best day, he would never have beaten the Pats. You seem to be pinning alot on/blaming a 25 year old making his 14th start against potentially the greatest team in the NFL for the loss. Nevermind that he got no help from anyone. I can't think of a single player that played well. I can't think of a single area where we won. It was a total beat down in every sense of the word.
Before you go off, don't get me wrong, just like everyone else, JC could have played better. Again, I have been highly critical of the fumbles. However, outside of those fumbles, I don't have much of a problem with the way he played. Even without the fumbles, was he outstanding? No. Was he horrific? No. He was mediocre without the fumbles.
So where is my double standard?
I've already explained it numerous times. I grow weary of trying to show you that if Rex had JC's day you would have had a very different story to tell.
It is simply not true. I was critical. I used the same words to describe JC's bad mistakes. You are just ultra sensitive. I don't know what you want from me.
Just not true. Were JC's errors "bone-headed" mistakes?
I don't really care if you want to chalk up JC's errors and mediocre numbers to others - really I don't.
But the idea that you treat JC's errors and Rex's errors the same is simply untrue. You don't have to bother to try to jump up and down and protest. Why not just acknowledge it? I get it - you love JC and hate Rex. Nothing wrong with just admitting it - certainly it would be better than trying to cover it up when the evidence is so clearly out there.
GEEZ! DO YOU PAY ATTENTION? This is what we posted much earlier on this subject (feel free to re read - it is about mid way through the discussion).
RobsObs: "JKD keeps talking about how he made bone-headed mistakes, but when I point out the stats, facts, and comparisons to JC then there is a different standard."
JKD: "WHAT DOUBLE STANDARD?! Why don't you understand?!! I have said that the fumbles are inexcusable! How can I make myself more clear! They were boneheaded mistakes! He had time and the rush wasn't from his blindside. He has to be able to feel/see the rush and either protect the ball and take the sack or throw it away. I have said that throughout this post. So, again, what double standard!
I have also said that if JC continues to fumble like that, you will hear the boo birds and I will be even more critical of him. Again, what double standard are you talking about!"
I am treating the errors the same. What double standard? I am beginning to think more and more that you have a selective memory problem and are just not paying attention. You never answer a question I ask and you just don't seem to be understanding what is being written.
RobsObs,
I don't know how you drummed up this double standard nonsense. I looked back to see what I posted to make you think anything malicious was said about Rexy...Here's the worst I could find.
After Rexy's terrible performance against Arizona last season I said, "I think Rob needs to stop claiming that Rex is a star at this point. He's a young QB that's benefiting from being on a good team. He can be rattled and makes what essentially amounts to rookie mistakes."
The point was simply to say Rexy was playing alright, but your unconditional support for him was a bit extreme given the mistakes he was making. You said he was terrible that game (which was excruciatingly obvious), but in other games where he clearly was the weakest link, you refused to acknowledge it.
I don't know how to be more consistent than I have been. JC has played at a level that is superior to most of his counterparts on offense almost all season. He's been mediocre in some games, but aside from the Patriots game, his mediocrity still was better than what he was getting out of his receivers, o-line, and running backs. No one has said he's lighting it up, but he is showing more control and consistency than Rexy was last year. If you don't like it, fine, but it's the truth.
Deeps, I don't believe you have an animous toward Rex that JKD so clearly demonstrates with many of his posts.
I also believe that you are more even-handed in analyses of the two than JKD. That said, I do believe that you now recognize how unlikely your original projection for JC of 24 TDs and 14 ints (or whatever you projected) really was. When you consider what Rex actually did last year in his first year as a starter, I think it becomes clearer that he had a very good year with his 23 TDs and 20 ints.
That is why I think the level of criticism for Rex was undue and unfair.
If I could have known that the o-line would be decimated and that the 4th ranked rushing attack from a year ago would drop to 18th and that Santana Moss would have the 2nd most drops in the league, I never would have made that bold a prediction.
Yes injuries happen and yes performance isn't guaranteed from one year to the next, but no one could have predicted that this offense that had seemed to find itself over the last 6-7 games last year would fall apart like it has.
I will say this though. I believe that if you put '07 JC on the '06 Bears team in place of Rexy, you would have had far fewer interceptions and game changing mistakes. It's impossible to prove, but that is a factor in how I based my prediction of a 24TD / 16INT season.
I don't care about Rexy. Sure, I call him Rexy and I have posted up some funny stuff about him but honestly, I don't care about the guy. I personally don't think that Rexy is that great of a QB. I think Deepie agrees with me on this. I think Deepie and I largely agree on our feelings of Rexy.
Most "funny" posts were done to show you that he isn't that great of a QB. You say you listen to Tom Thayer and read and listen to what is out there combined with the numbers you provided on Benson and thus think he is a solid back that is running harder. Well, what about the majority of the critics and analysts that spoke and wrote on the inconsistent Rexy? Do they not count? If you look at Rexy's numbers, he had 10 TDs and 13 INTs in the second half of the season. He had 1 TD and 6 INTs at the start of this season. What's worse is that many of the INTs were poor decisions.
You say I have a double standard but you asked me twice in this subject post at different times whether I thought JC's fumbles in the NE game were "boneheaded." I said they were. I did not like those fumbles and am confident in saying that they were on the QB and he has to learn to protect the football.
I think Deepie and I both agree that we would rather have JC as our QB rather than Rexy. I will admit to poking fun at Rexy but I don't hate the guy. The way things are shaping up with the Bears season, it doesn't look like they will make the playoffs and you might as well give Rexy another shot and see if he is the QB of the future and if you want to make a large investment in him or draft a QB. Griese is not the long term solution. I thought Griese would have been the better solution last year in that he could have provided more consistency at the position. We all agree that Rexy was erratic and inconsistent. Still, at this point, let the guy have another chance. Maybe the time off has allowed him to relax some and maybe being out of the playoff picture and having the fans look at Griese will take some of the pressure off of him. Who knows?
You admit to hating the Redskins and will take every chance you can to come down on them. I have no feelings towards the Bears. That is the truth.
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