Tough game but a great season. As I've said for several weeks, the season has far exceeded my expectations. Of course we wanted the dream to continue but I still felt (even deep into the season) that we are a year away from being real contenders. Still, a great step forward and gives Skins fans something to be proud of and something to look forward to in the future.
The real concern is the injury RG3 suffered. My guess right now is that it is serious and may very well end up being his ACL. Given that he had an MRI done last night and nothing has been released and RG3's comments after the game plus James Andrews being right there to diagnose, my guess this is going to be an ACL injury. It's terrible and one of the big questions will be whether RG3 should have been in there or not. It's something that is compounded by the injury he suffered. Here are my thoughts on the game and RG3:
First the game. Obviously, it was a tale of pre injury and post injury. In the first quarter, the Skins moved the ball at will. However, the injury took place later in the first quarter, deep in Seattle territory when RG3 rolled to his right and threw on the run. He clearly aggravated the knee as he fell out of bounds. He was slow to get up and was gimpy the rest of the game. He ended up throwing a TD on the next play but it was clear he wasn't the same.
Defense was solid most of the game and I'm proud of how Haslett and the defense improved over the last third of the season. Just better schemes and more of what I expected a highly paid coordinator to do. I said for many weeks that early in the season I was more disappointed with the scheme and the defensive coaching than the players. So it was good to see him make the necessary changes that suited the personnel and allowed them to be in better positions to be successful. Again, can't complain much with the defensive effort given yesterday.
I was disappointed that Morris didn't get the ball much particularly in the second half. He only had five carries in the second half and 16 carries over all. Morris was successful running the ball and I totally understand that the Skins probably wanted to keep the Seattle defense off balance by doing play action hoping for bigger plays. However, Morris has been our bread and butter and I get that his success is limited without a healthy RG3 being a threat to run but still I would have wanted to see more of him and have Seattle prove that they could stop him.
Now to RG3. Shanny admitted that he wasn't sure what to do as far as pulling RG3. I believe it. In fact, it is a no win situation. RG3 has been playing hurt the last few weeks and there was no reason to believe he shouldn't/couldn't play yesterday. Even when he aggravated his knee on the play mentioned above, it's hard to take him out. Sure, hindsight is 20/20 but there was no guarantee Cousins would come in and light it up. In fact, if Cousins had come in and not played well, all the fans/media would have said why did he take out RG3? Obviously, the way things played out, those same fans that would have complained about taking out RG3 are the same fans/media that will complain about why they kept RG3 in there. It's the nature of fans/media. If RG3 had played okay and the Skins won, there would be no questions. Still, that is the nature of fans/media and we should probably all recognize that now.
I will say that the field conditions sucked and have sucked all year. Will be interesting to see what Danny boy does about it in the offseason. Also, I don't think the previous injury played a part in injury RG3 suffered yesterday. Obviously, the knee bent awkwardly and he crumpled immediately. Still, the two injuries seem independent of one another.
Also, as far as keeping him in there, again, I'm sure it is something Shanny will question especially if RG3 is more seriously hurt. However, I'm sure most everyone on the team expected RG3 to play and were more willing to ride with him than go to Cousins. RG3 himself said that he expected to play and would have been "highly upset" if Shanny had pulled him. I get that this is the playoffs and no player wants to come out and sometimes it is incumbent on coaches to protect players from themselves and I also know that RG3 can be overly convincing but still unless the doctors told me otherwise, last night I wanted to ride with RG3. However, in thinking about it a bit more last night and this morning, I would have wanted to study RG3's throwing mechanics during the game. Clearly, he wasn't going to be able to run the ball. I do believe he is an accurate passer and can win with his arm as well. However, he was off on his passes yesterday. Passes that he typically makes. I would have liked to have monitored and studied in the game how well he was able to plant that right foot. Seems like he was having difficulty planting and throwing and thus resulting in his inaccuracy. If that was the case, he should have been pulled.
It's easy now to say would've/could've/should've. What's done is done. They have the results of the MRI. We await the news. Nothing we can do now. Season is over. It was a success. All we can do is take this and learn from it use it as we prepare for next season.
HTTR!!!
14 comments:
It was a great season for the skins. The better team won last night. The skins defense really had no answer for Seahawks offense. I think the beginning of the game was more jitters than anything else. The Seahawks defense and offense made adjustments and the skins never scored again while Seattle scored 24 straight. Some of it had to do with the injury but the gameplan should not have ignored RG3s condition. it's clear the skins offensive line is not good at pass protection when conventional drop back passing is required. I wasn't impressed with RG3 as a drop back passer. Again could be due to injury but you have to consider that shannys thought he was good enough to make the throws and left him in. I am really surprised they didn't use Morris more as the game was 14-13 for much of the time. Personally I thought the skins coaches mismanaged a lot. RG3 is going to have to play qb conventionally or at least learn to run smarter if he wants to last more that 3 years. A lot hinges on this injury.
I don't want to take anything away from Seattle because I do believe they are a very good football team. They are arguably the best team in the NFC. However, it was clear that the game changed when RG3 aggravated his knee during the Skins second drive. It was obvious for everyone.
The Seahawks didn't really make adjustments. Even their coaches have admitted to this. What they did do was Carroll recognized what had happened to RG3 and told his team to not worry about him breaking contain on the outside.
The issue was that the injury clearly affected RG3's ability to run. What was more difficult and harder to recognize was how much the injury affected his ability to pass. JSR, you have to recognize how difficult it is to throw when you are having difficulty with your plant foot. Yes, RG3 was having accuracy issues yesterday but there is a reason for it. To recognize that it was more limited to yesterday's game, look at his entire body of work including this season and his college career. The guy has been an accurate passer his entire career. It should leave reasonable belief that his knee was affecting his throws. Actually, if you look at video of him throwing the deep TD to Robinson against the Cowboys on Thanksgiving and video of his deep INT yesterday it is clear how he could not get his body into the ball and really had to rely solely on his arm to throw. Thinking about it and reviewing things more today, the right thing to do was to put Cousins in. I admit that I didn't think too much about it yesterday but when RG3's injury is hampering his throwing, it was time for change. I don't blame anyone for leaving him in there and again hindsight is 20/20 but it probably would have been best to have him sit.
Again, it seems obvious how much of an impact the injury had. Even the Seahawks recognized the difference. Many of the Seahawks players and coaches praised RG3 for trying to play but mentioned they knew he was having difficulty. Richard Sherman said, “He is one of the best players I’ve ever seen. He presents a lot of challenges. I’m sure if he were 100 percent, it would have been a different game.”
Couldn't agree more. Again, it was clear how different the game was once he got hurt on that second drive. I'm not saying we would have won but it certainly would have been a very different game.
I will agree with you on Morris. I thought it was a mistake to not use him more regularly even if Seattle was going to key on him. It's the same with the Viking/Pucker game. Joe Webb sucks and I get that the Vikings were trying to spread the Pucker defense by having him pass to open things up for Peterson but both Peterson and Morris were effective in their respective games and they both should have been used A LOT more than they were.
As far as the pass rush, Seattle definitely has a decent pass rush but it makes it a whole lot easier at the end of a game when D lineman can pin their ears back and just rush the QB. That's what they love to do and when they don't have to worry about a run, it makes it a heck of a lot easier. Again, you have to look at the entire body of work and not just a sample scenario that played out at the end of a game where we are forced to pass to make a better judgement.
The good thing is, as T. Aikman mentioned, these are two good young teams on the rise and I expect both will only improve in the next 1-3 years.
Good season - far better than I expected.
This is what I have to say about yesterday's game - RGIII should have been taken out of the game after the second TD. He was clearly limping and a coach has to step in and take a player out in that situation.
We'll see how bad the injury is, but it may have gone from a sprain that needed a couple of weeks to heal, to surgical repair requiring months of rehabilitation.
In my opinion, Shanny really blew it as a coach and he put the franchise in some peril with his bad decisionmaking.
Hopefully RGIII is OK, but I would be surprised if it was not a very serious injury.
What bothers me is that everyone is willing to complain in a loss but as long as the team wins, everything is golden.
RG3 was hobbling in the Eagle game. He was better but clearly had a limp in the Cowboy game. Where were all the people clamoring for him to be removed in those games?
I know everyone will (has been) questioning Shanny. Frankly, Shanny admitted that he second guessed himself. It's a tough call. Again, hindsight is 20/20. I don't believe the previous injury caused the second injury (I may be wrong on that). It's just a tough call.
Coach Mike Shanahan asked Griffin a couple of times during the game and at halftime, about his knee, and both times Griffin insisted he was okay. "I guarantee I'm not injured,'' Griffin told Shanahan at the half.
"It's a tough decision,'' said Shanahan, "and you've got to go with your gut. I'm not saying my gut was right. I'll probably second-guess myself."
RG3 also said in his postgame comments that he respects Coach Shanahan but there was no way he was coming out of that game. Many of the players felt like RG3 earned the right to play. Again, I get that coaches sometimes have to make decisions to protect players from themselves but this is a no win situation. If RG3 is pulled and Cousins blows it, everyone (fans/media) will be writing about why was he pulled?
Again, where was everyone (media) the last two games when RG3 was limping? I'm fine with criticism but it would be nice to get consistency. Again, everything is good with victories. Frankly, outside of the winner of the Super Bowl all the other teams (their fans and media) will be saying could've/would've/should've.
A final thought, RG3 tweeted this morning, "Many may question, criticize & think they have all the right answers. But few have been in the line of fire in battle."
It's an unfortunate incident but I don't think sole blame can fall on Shanny. Peter King stated, "Even if there's a frosty relationship between noted team orthopedist James Andrews and Shanahan, Andrews is on the staff, at least in part, because he's the foremost expert on knees in the country. He should have the power to speak up when he sees something obviously wrong with the franchise quarterback. And Griffin is not blameless here either. He's an adult. If he swears over and over he's fine, the coach has to listen to that and take that into account. "I wasn't lying,'' said Griffin. "I was able to go out and play, period."
Shanny is totally at fault. I don't blame RGIII for trying to stay in the game. Most star players will play if they can.
Shanny misled the media (or was mistaken) when he said that Dr. Andrews had cleared RGIII to return to play after the initial injury in the Ravens game. Andrews said he never cleared RGIII because he never even got a chance to examine him.
That came out before the playoff game. Putting the blame on Andrews or on RGIII is just silly. Shanny is paid $7M/year to make the call and he made a mistake - what may end up being a very, very costly mistake. He needs to take responsibility.
When you and I talked last week, I told you I did not think Shanny handles RGIII correctly and quite frankly, him being injured (probably seriously) is exactly what I expected.
Anyone that thinks that Shanny doesn't care about RG3 and his future is ridiculous.
Jaws talked about how he was at the Baylor workout day with the Shannys, Snyder, and Bruce Allen and how it was clear they had a love affair with RG3. There is no way they would purposely jeopardize his career.
Shanny said that in the Ravens game after RG3 was hurt, he was watching the game but saw that RG3 was jogging on the sidelines, he was surprised to see RG3 re-enter the game and he turned to Andrews and asked him if he was okay to go into the game and Andrews said yes. Shanny told reporters today to talk to Andrews about what took place and couldn't speak for him. There may have been a misunderstanding who knows?
Shanny has already said that he second guessed his decision but he made his decision and he has to stand by it. He said that his decision was based on the week's practice, talking to the player, talking to the trainers, and talking to the medical staff. It was obvious he should start and when he aggravated the injury on the second drive it was a tough spot to be in to figure out what to do. After consulting all parties, he did what he thought was best. The players stood by him. Merril Hoge, Jaws, and Herm Edwards all understood the decision. Again, hindsight is 20/20 so it's easy now to say he should have done something else. In the heat of the moment, I can understand the decision. Again, he didn't look any more gimpy than he did in the Philly game and he looked slightly better in the Cowboy game but no one said anything about pulling him in those games.
In fact, when you and I spoke a couple weeks back, you said you felt like Shanny didn't have a great relationship with RG3 and almost sounded like it was a distrustful relationship and Shanny wanted to go with Cousins in the Eagles game but succumbed to pressure. If anything, the exact opposite is the case. Shanny and RG3 seem very close and Shanny probably trusted RG3 more than he should have.
Again, it was a tough call. I'm sure Shanny wishes he could do it over now. He can't. I don't think it was crazy to keep him in there. If RG3 had engineered a TD drive on that drive, there would not be this controversy and instead people would be talking about how gutsy RG3 was and continue on about how unbelievable the kid is. Again, no one complained about RG3 playing in the Eagle or Cowboy game despite him limping.
When Jeff George sat in last year's playoff game most media/fans got on him about how he wasn't tough enough and he let down the team. There is a no win situation. It's the media/fans doing what the media/fans do best.
Again, easy to say now to replace him but in the moment, I can't blame him and I don't think anyone on the team blames Shanny for the decision. Fletcher said that RG3 earned the right to play in that game. Hoge said that the player definitely deserves input into that decision and can make the call. Garcon said that it's a tough call and understood Shanny's decision.
Frankly, the injury itself seems like it didn't have much to do with the previous injury. Seemed more to do with the poor field conditions on a poor snap.
First, regarding the game, I really didn't think the Seahawks knew what to do on defense while RG3 was relatively healthy. We cruised to a 14 point lead and, as JKSD said, the injury changed the whole complexion of the game. Without the threat of Griffin running around the edge, they were able to apply pressure. Griffin wasn't accurate and wasn't mobile and the game was essentially over. Tough way to end an otherwise successful season. I was prepared to accept a loss, but the injury makes this a bitter pill to swallow.
I initially was blaming Shanny for pure and simple irresponsibility. He's the coach and he needed to make the tough call and pull RG3 out of the game before the injury happened. At 14-10, I was saying it might be Cousins time. Then, when RG3 limped to a 9 yard gain, I was sure he needed to come out. Shanny left him in and we are now most likely faced with the worst case scenario.
The more I hear from analysts and former players on various talk shows, the more I think it's tough to put the blame on Shanny. He himself said in hindsight he probably should have taken RG3 out, but in the moment he listened to his QB say with confidence that he should go back in. What really caught my attention was when Shanny said he needs to learn just how stubborn RG3 is and take that into account. Considering how quickly things happen on the sidelines and all of the information that needs to be assessed, I can't say for certain that I would have done anything differently if I were in Shanny's shoes.
I think, at the end of the day, the blame lies with the coach. Griffin will probably miss all of next season based on the latest reports. We'll know for certain in the next day or two exactly how severe the injury is. I'll cross my fingers and pray to Jobu that he can come back healthy next season...Otherwise, I'll be sick to my stomach every time I see the RG3 jersey that I ordered last week.
I suppose if one person is supposed to take the blame than it should be Shanny as he is the ultimate authority on what decisions take place on the field. Still, I don't think for one second that he would willfully jeopardize RG3's future on this one game. I also believe that he made the decision based on what he heard from the doctors, trainers, RG3, etc. and felt that his decision was what was best for the team at that time.
I also don't doubt that given what has taken place he would do things differently. As said a number of times now, hindsight is 20/20.
All this said, I didn't hear one person say during the Eagle or Cowboy game that RG3 shouldn't play. He was limping in both games but no one ever said that he should come out. Again, if RG3 had led a come back win, the topics of discussion this week would be COMPLETELY different.
Shanny mentioned that in the Eagles game when RG3 limped towards the sideline on a run, Shanny told him that he was going to pull him out and RG3 told him not to worry and to stay with him. He did and we ended up winning. The same thing happened in the Seahawk game and Shanny trusted RG3 again.
I was listening to the Junkies this morning and they had a well respected trainer that has served in that capacity to high profile Olympic athletes and has a very impressive resume. He said that RG3 has to go through tests to determine if is able to play. The original injury he suffered is painful but as long as the athlete can withstand the pain and pass the tests, they are able to play. He said that no test can simulate real game situation but as long as that individual can tolerate the pain, he/she can play. The play in which RG3 got hurt was a freak play in on a bad snap that bounced funny and ended up twisting RG3 around awkwardly. It's unfortunate.
Look, believe me, I am a HUGE RG3 fan and the last thing I want is the guy to end up having reconstructive surgery and be out for extended period of time. There is no question that the Skins success this past season was in large part because of RG3. If we have to go with Cousins for the beginning and possibly much of next season, I think it hurts the team greatly as despite Cousins success in limited action, he is no RG3.
In hindsight, I too would want to have taken out RG3. However, during the game, I felt there was not much differene b/t his play in that game and the previous two games and understood the reason to continue with him. I just find it fascinating that with essentially the same type of play we saw from him over the last few weeks, the only time people chime in and say it was a mistake is when he was hurt and we lost. No one made a fuss when we were winning.
Excuses, excuses - in a couple of days you will recognize the horrible mistake it was to have RGIII playing.
Couple of things. First, no one is saying that Shanny purposely wanted to have RGIII hurt. I said it a couple of months ago, a couple of weeks ago, a couple of days ago, and I will say it again - Shanny mismanaged RGIII and the play calling really hurt RGIII to the point where he is quite likely to miss all of next year.
Second, I know when he came back to play against the Eagles, I said that he should not be playing. The injury looked bad against the Ravens and the "normal" recovery from such a sprain is 2-4 weeks. He is the franchise and I would be extra cautious with him.
Third, I didn't criticize Cutler - I thought it was exactly the right move. As a result he was able to recover fully after 4-6 weeks of rest and rehab. Had he tried to play - as he wanted to - he may have missed all of the following year. Lovie took responsibility for taking him out, although I think Cutler knew he couldn't get back in anyway.
In the next couple of days - especially if (when) it is announced that RGIII is going to need major knee surgery - you will see a ton of analysts say Shanny was wrong to play him. That is what analysts do.
It is obvious to anyone who is an objective observer that RGIII was hurt and that he should not have been playing. It is Shanny's fault that he was still in the game. That was his responsibility pure and simple.
No one is making excuses.
How did Shanny mismanage the play calling on Sunday? He didn't have RG3 run on several designed runs. Look, he based his decision on what doctors, trainers, RG3, etc. told him and how he performed in practice during the week. RG3's knee was checked out by all of the above for stability and motion and he was cleared to play. The trainer that I heard on the Junkies said that a sprained LCL is painful but as long as the player can withstand the pain, the integrity of the knee is not an issue and the player can play.
Again, I'm not happy with what happened. Hindsight is 20/20 so it's easy to say things now. I also know that media/fans love controversy so they will say what they say and do what they do best.
All I'm saying is that RG3 was cleared to play and there was no reason to think he couldn't play. He was limping similar to the way he was limping the previous two games (Dallas and Philly). It's unfortunate what happened and of course Shanny will be questioned but no one said anything the previous weeks. The knee was stable and everyone expected him to play. I can understand the decision for him to play. You seem to not understand it and not sure if either one of use will change our opinion.
I don't remember you saying that RG3 shouldn't play against the Eagles (not saying that that didn't happen). However, I recall the crux of that conversation being that you were insinuating that RG3 and Shanny had a bad relationship and they didn't trust each other and that Shanny wanted to go with Cousins but would succumb to pressure. I disagreed with that and if anything that has happened since then it should prove that Shanny and RG3 have a good relationship. Again, you have the right to believe what you want and I don't think I will change your mind. I have a feeling even if RG3 told you he liked Shanny you wouldn't believe it.
I didn't say you criticized George. However, all the analysts and "experts" and fans got all over George for being a wuss and letting his team down. I don't disagree with the decisions. All I'm trying to point out is that, again, it is the fans/media doing what they do best and stir up the pot.
Again, I'm sure Shanny wishes he could have a do over and I don't doubt for a second that he wanted to jeopardize RG3's career. That wouldn't make any sense. I think it was a tough call and he put too much trust in RG3 and I don't necessarily think the injury was directly related to the previous LCL sprain (I may be wrong on this). It was a freak play. I think the field conditions were more to blame than anything else. It's unfortunate. Regardless, there is no going back and all we can do is hope for the best and prepare for the worst and move forward.
Even if Shanny didn't take out RGIII when he first started limping, there was plenty of opportunity to take him out before he crumpled on the field.
We know Shanny mismanaged RGIII because RGIII was limping badly, was playing on the worst surface in the NFL, and had been ineffective for much of the game.
I was right about Cutler and all the "experts" and you were wrong. What happened to RGIII is another example of how I am correct and you and all the "experts" were wrong. Lovie made the right call then, and Shanny made the wrong call this weekend.
Now Shanny can see what Cuz can do (unfortunately it won't be much).
As mentioned before, RG3 had played the previous two games limping the same way no one said anything then. He was cleared to play by everyone. I can understand the reasons for him playing.
What do you mean you were right about Cutler? So what? George's injury was very different than RG3's. He suffered a grade II MCL sprain during the game. It's understandable that he would have difficulty going back in. What does that have to do with anything?
The one thing I do enjoy is that you seem to kind of be picking up some steam on this topic and I can feel/sense your enjoyment in it as the last few weeks I knew how down you were in realizing the Pears are who I thought they were. I am chuckling right now.
Good gravy Robs. What's wrong with you? You put JKSD up to a wild goose chase to find examples of similar situations, which he's provided about 20 of, and you refute each one like a cantankerous old man who believes everyone else is wrong. Give it a rest.
You're just like every other hater out there who gets on their soap box when the opportunity arises. Where was this outright hatred for Shanny during the 7-game win streak? How are you claiming that RG3 played poorly against the Eagles and Cowgirls? He had a 102.4 QB rating against the Eagles and when the Cowgirls dropped everyone back to take away the pass, he and Morris racked up over 260 yards rushing and 4 TDs. I would argue that his play significantly helped the Skins win both games to take the NFC East.
Sure the injury was terrible and it could have been avoided. Shanny told Griffin when he walked off the field, "I should have taken you out." Griffin responded with, "It's not on you, coach." Shanny knows he F'd up, but I think Lavar Arrington summed up the situtation best on the air yesterday. He describes the injury situation as one where the doctors run a laundry list of tests. If the player has no obvious injury and can tolerate the pain, they are medically cleared to play. Griffin left the doctors and was moving as expected on the sidelines when Shanny agreed to let him in. IF anything during this entire process clearly indicated that Griffin was at risk of injury, he would not have been able to go back in. Yes, it's the coach who has the final say. That is why Shanny admitted to screwing up. The fact of the matter is, no coach would have done anything differently.
Robs...how about this. Find me one example of a coach who refused to let their injured player who was medically cleared to play to go back into the game. Good luck with that one, Pears fan.
Oops. Posted that to the wrong topic.
Post a Comment