It's not really all that funny. Cowherd provided false "facts" and misquoted and misrepresented what Rex said about his performance against Green Bay.
In addition, look up the Sun-Times poll before the playoffs started. More than half of Chicago fans wanted Rex over Griese in the playoffs.
I actually listen to Colin Cowherd regularly - I disagree with him quite often (and I am not talking about just Rex or the Bears). If you listen to him, you will find yourself disagreeing with him quite often also.
"In this league, especially at this position, you have to bring it every single week, no matter what," Grossman told the Chicago Sun-Times for Thursday's editions. "And the situation was I felt like I was going to play about a half, and it was the last game, it was New Year's Eve -- there were so many other factors that brought my focus away from what is actually important, and that's something that I am never going to do again.
"There is too much I am responsible for to not give it 100 percent during the week and just the full attention," Grossman said. "It's another lesson."
I'm not sure how you interpret the quote but I take it literally and my understanding is that because he said that it was the last game, he thought he was only going to play a half, and it was New Year's eve, he lost focus and wasn't as serious. Because of the "so many other factors," he did not give the game a 100% OR his full attention.
Rex told the truth about what he felt and was apologetic for not feeling focused. What I really object to is Cowherd's bashing of Rex for being forthright. You think if he had said, "I was really prepared and focused, but sometimes things just don't work out" it would have changed any of the criticism that he faced? Please. Cowherd would have still bashed him.
It was a meaningless game and given how the Bears played that night, I think a lot of guys took the night off. That said, what is wrong with what he said?
Read the following, it is a good defense for Rex just being honest.
So when Tim Couch cried because he thought he fans were too rough on him or when Heath Shuler said that he was having difficulty throwing because the new Wilson balls had "schlack" on them, you are okay with their honesty?
You don't think it would have been better for all three of these players to give a more PC type of answer?
That's the thing about you. If Heath Shuler had said what Rexy said OR if Mark Brunell had said what "3 a day" had said, you would be singing a different tune.
This is why you are silly and this is why I find only increased humor in this whole thing.
I don't care what Tim Couch said. A lot of guys say that - that is being honest. I didn't criticize him for it.
Heath's problem is that there is nothing he can do about "schlack." That kind of comment means that he cannot play in the NFL because the balls don't work for him. It is a silly comment that in now way is comparable to what Rex said.
Brunell would never have said what Rex said. Instead, he gives PC answers and says, "we have to get better as a team." Just after coming off of a horrible game with 50 yards passing and 2 interceptions.
You bash Rex for telling the truth. You think he is the only one who ever lost some focus before a meaningless game, in the rain, on New Year's Day? Unlike Brunell, Rex is honest and took responsibility. You would rather get the canned answer. That is up to you.
RobsObs, are you serious? When do athletes tell it like it is? There are so many cliche quotes that athletes need to give in order not to draw attention to themselves. I'm sure players dog it on certain plays and aren't as focused as they need to be in certain games. You know this, right? I don't think you are silly enough not to know this.
If a guy goes out and gets drunk the night before a game and then struggles and then is asked about it, would you want him to tell the truth?
Yeah, I would love for people to be honest in the public. I would love for ALL athletes, politicians, entertainers, and those in the public eye to be up front and tell us how they really feel and their real agendas. Got news for you, pal...not going to happen.
Rexy is dumb to even insinuate that he didn't give it his full effort and dogged the game. He didn't even insinuate it. He flat out said it. It's dumb. It makes you look like a fool and it does nothing to help you in the fans eyes.
What Shuler said was dumb. The smart thing to say would have been that he struggled and made some bad plays and he has to learn. Sure, it is of a canned answer but it will protect him from looking like a fool.
RobsObs, do you understand how the media works? Do you think it would be smart for politicians, athletes, entertainers, etc. to be honest in all of their interviews and provide full disclosure?
I know how the media works. Basically they want to sell papers or gather listeners/viewers to their station. Controversy sells.
Personally, I don't have any trouble with what he said. I find it refreshing that he was willing to be open and honest. Because of people like you, he won't be in the future. So we can be treated to Brunell-like responses. That is what you prefer, otherwise you wouldn't be such a critic.
You're ridiculous, RobsObs. 99% of entertainers, politicians, athlestes than give "Brunell-like" responses. Have you watched sports interviews before? Have you watched political debates before? When do people give open, honest answers with full disclosure?
Again, I would prefer for all of these folks to be honest. That doesn't mean I can't have an opinion on what they say or make fun of them. That is well within my right.
We both made fun of Shuler when he made his comment. It was dumb. So was Rexy when he said that he didn't give full effort and dogged it. You would have to agree with me on that. Your love of Rexy clouds your judgement and makes you very biased.
I agreed with you in not liking Brunell's answers and wished he was more honest. If he said that he was old and didn't have any more strength in his arms/legs, I would have laughed my ass off and thought he just committed career suicide but part of me would have respected him for telling the truth.
I think Marbury was ridiculous when he said that he doesn't care about wins or losses only that he gets paid. It's silly but I suppose refreshing in that he was honest and he's not the only one that feels that way.
I wish Bonds would come out and flat out say that he used steroids and HGH. I wish gay athletes would come out and disclose that right now. It would be refreshing to hear the truth but again, they would be setting themselves up as HUGE targets.
I told you the difference between Shuler and Rex's comments. Look it up.
You have this really odd habit of writing what you think I would say or write in hypothetical situations. If I never say or write such things, it is ridiculous to accuse me of being a hypocrite. How can I be a hypocrite if I never said or wrote what you accuse me of being a hypocrite about.
It is like me saying, you criticize Rex because he is a Bear, but I know you really like him secretly and would love to have him on your team. YOU ARE A HYPOCRITE. Obviously, that does not make any sense, but that is exactly what you do - you make up things that you think I would say and then call me a hypocrite. It is inane.
RobsObs, tell me honestly. If Mark Brunell or Jason Campbell had said the exact same thing, would you have had the same reaction?
Also, do you want full disclosure of what athletes are thinking/feeling and why they don't perform well in certain games? Would you want players to tell you they took certain plays off/the game off because their head just wasn't into it?
If that's what you wanted, do you think that by saying those things, it would have an adverse impact on their job/career?
Please don't give a long diatribe or skirt around the questions. "Yes" or "No" and if you want to include a short explanation will suffice.
Honestly - I DON'T KNOW. It would certainly depend on the situation.
But what I do know is that there is no way that YOU KNOW what I would say.
I don't think what Rex said is particularly damaging. It was New Year's, it was the last game of the season, the Bears were not playing for anything. He said he made a mistake, learned his lesson, and would never let his teammates down again. What is the big deal?
I certainly don't think the comment is going to hurt his career, because most reasonable people can understand that given the circumstances, not much was on the line.
If he had said that after the Super Bowl, playoff game, a season opener, or even a game in the middle of the year when they were still fighting for a playoff spot, then we might have something to talk about.
Depend on the situation, huh? Oh, I get it. The situation is if the Redskins say it, then you think it is ridiculous but if a Bear says it, it is "refreshing." I like your line of thinking!
RobsObs, it wasn't horrific what he said but it was still dumb. You are the professional QB for an NFL team in a large market. You get paid to perform. You work 16 days out of the year (not including playoffs) and you better always give it your 100% effort. As a fan, I expect nothing less. For me to accept a player dogging it is ridiculous. It was dumb what he said. It wasn't catastrophic but it was still dumb. WOO HOO! New Year's EVE!! PAR-TAYYYYYY!!!! C'mon, that's silly. I mean even if that is what was on your mind, have the good sense not to say it. You are a QB that is already under the microscope and the fans/media are all on your back. That is not the way to draw them closer to you. It was dumb.
I am honestly finding this discussion amusing as the more I think about the quote, the more ridiculous it is that he said it. He sure has some balls to admit that he wasn't in the game and he dogged it because he was thinking about the PAR-TAYYYYY!!!! I'll give him that.
You two make me laugh. Please don't stop this nut-kicking contest and kiss and make up anytime soon. It's too funny.
First of all, Cowherd is an idiot. He says things that, honestly, I don't think he really believes just to get a rise out of his audience. For instance, once last year he was doing his show from a bar in downtown Chicago and he ranked the top five NFC teams. #1 - Dallas...#5 - da Bears. He got an earful from the bar patrons and he enjoyed it. I think he's the one who should have his nuts kicked in.
Second, RobOb, it seems that you do what Cowherd does with your posts as well. I can see you sitting there laughing as you post something deliberately to piss others off. I must say it's a talent, but to constantly disagree with everyone else is ridiculous.
Third...on to Rexy. Face it. The guy is plain average. He benefits from being on a great team, yet the team doesn't benefit from him. They just hope he doesn't screw up too much. He's like Trent Dilfer was on the Ravens...with the team praying, "please don't screw up." The difference is, Dilfer didn't screw up. He wasn't great but he didn't make stupid mistakes and they won a Super Bowl because of it.
Yes, Rexy is young. Yes, he has had great games, but so did Gus Frerotte. The team sticks up for him because they know Griese won't provide much more and because there's more upside with Rexy. That's it. They don't have confidence that he'll be a difference maker in a positive way. He's just their best hope considering the alternatives.
I hope Rexy gets better. The Bears could be a brutal, punishing team if gets better. Right now, however, other teams know they have a chance against them because Rexy is the QB. And given that the running game lost TJ, opposing defenses will key in on Rexy more...I'm sure scouts see the same thing I see with Benson...He's pretty good as a change of pace but he's not big enough or durable enough to be a 25-30 carry a game back in the NFL.
Finally, comparing J.C. to Rexy at this point doesn't make much sense. As JKD has said in the past, Rexy has entered 3 NFL seasons as the #1 guy. This is J.C.'s first as the man. Simply being in the NFL for a few years should be a huge advantage for Rexy over J.C. Look at Mark Rypien. He didn't play a down for 4 years, but when he came in, he was one of the top QBs in the league for the next four years...with 2 pro-bowls and a Super Bowl MVP to prove it. Rexy's team is probably better than the team's Ryp had...I don't see Rexy going to the pro-bowl any time soon. J.C. started 7 games last year. He had a higher QB rating and a much better TD to interception ratio than Rexy even though he was on a lousy team. I won't compare the two directly, but it seems that Rexy should be way ahead of the curve when compared to J.C., but he's not. You said so yourself, RobOb. J.C. is where Rexy was last year. That really isn't saying much for Rexy at all.
You did it again - "if the Redskins say it, then you think it is ridiculous but if a Bear says it, it is "refreshing."
Where did I write or say that?
You asked me if Brunell or JC had said the same thing, would I criticize them. Well, if it were after the after the Super Bowl, a playoff game, a season opener, or even a game in the middle of the year when they were still fighting for a playoff spot then I would criticize them - just as I said I would do about Rex.
That is what I mean by "it would depend on the situation."
If the Redskins had clinched home field, were playing a meaningless game on New Year's and JC performed poorly - I wouldn't give a damn. The game would be meaningless.
Deepie, I have made the point that JC today, is where Rex was last year. I have also said that JC will make his share of mistakes just like Rex did last year. Let's see what happens.
Rex is no Dilfer. Dilfer played for 6 years and started for 5 years in the NFL before he moved on to Baltimore. Dilfer's first year as a starter resulted in 4 TDs and 18 INTs.
If you look up QB stats throughout history, my guess is that you will find very few QBs who threw 23 TDs in their first year as a pro. You will find plenty who threw a lot of INTs. The good to great QBs get better as they play more games and they cut down on the mistakes. That is what I expect Rex to do.
Com'on Rob. With Berrian and a stud like Muhammad, a very good o-line and an excellent running back like TJ, I could have thrown 23 TDs. Very few QBs throw 23 TDs in a season regardless of how much experience they have. With as good as the Bears were last year, there was no way he could have thrown less TDs. The only games when Rexy was a difference maker were early in the season during the brief undefeated run and in the NFC Championship. He was a liability in every other game.
Yes you made the point that J.C. is where Rexy was last year. That's what I said. What I also said was that it doesn't say much for Rexy. Last year was Rexy's third year as the starter entering the season. He had the benefit of tons of progressions with the first team for 3 off-seasons. He had a stud running back and very good receivers. He had a solid o-line. The mistakes he made were his own fault and it probably has to do with his lax approach to the game. Maybe he's changed since making a fool out of himself after the Green Bay game, but if that's how he approached games last year, it would explain a lot.
Rexy is the Randy Moss of QBs right now. Unfortunately for him, he has never excelled like Moss to allow himself some slack when it comes to his perception in the media. I can assure you that J.C. will never say he had New Year's parties on his mind and that he couldn't focus 100%. He's a consummate professional...it's clear as day and it will result in success. Maybe not 23 TDs worth, but definitely in terms of consistency and productivity.
If Brunell or Campbell were to say the same thing, I would be just as critical and say that it was ridiculous. I don't care whether we clinched home field advantage or not. I would still be upset that my QB said that he didn't give full effort and dogged it the game going into the playoffs because he was thinking about the PAR-TAYYY! It would particularly concern me if the QB was struggling in the latter part of the season going into the playoffs.
Rexy was not in his first year as a pro last year. It was his third year as the Bears starting QB. If you look at his first year as the starter, he was on pace for a 5 TD and 15 INT season. Keep in mind, Rexy played last season on a team with an outstanding defense and great special teams that won games by themselves. It sure makes it easier on a QB, when you have those types of teams leading the way. Wouldn't you agree on this?
Deepie, at least you recognize how difficult it is for ANY NFL QB to throw 23 TDs in a season. Although the funny thing is that you don't want to give him credit for it.
Also Deepie, with a supposedly great offensive line, Portis and Betts, Cooley, Moss and Randle El, and the great coaching. JC better get 23 TDs this year, otherwise you may want to submit your resume to the Redskins, seeing how you could have thrown 23 TD passes for the Bears last year.
I'll expect you to criticize JC if he doesn't throw at least 20 TDs.
I'm not so concerned with how many TDs J.C. throws as I am in how many mistakes he makes. If his TD to INT ratio is as bad as Rexy's was last year, I'll be disappointed. I'll also be disappointed if he is extremely inconsistent and carries himself in a way that a leader should not...body language will speak volumes. Given his work ethic and everything we're hearing about him this off-season, I don't think I'll have to worry much.
RobsObs, I love how you twist things and make it seem like Deepie (and I) said that the Redskins have the greatest offensive line, players, coaches, schemes, etc. since the dawn of the NFL. We have been critical of the team. That's the difference. You got your head waist deep up Rexy's cornhole, it has affected your judgement.
Yes, we feel good about the offense but you have long been complaining about the age of the O-line and I have repeatedly pointed out that it is younger than the Bears O-line and they had better numbers than the Bears last year so yes, it is solid.
Anyhoo, I agree with Deepie in that I am not concerned as much with the number of TDs but rather how many mistakes he makes. If his TD to INT ratio is as bad as Rexy's was last year, I'll be disappointed. I'll also be disappointed if he is extremely inconsistent and carries himself in a way that a leader should not and says stupid shat like I didn't give 100% and I am dogging it.
I do agree that Deepie's numbers are ambitious. I am basically looking to see if Jason Campbell is the future QB of the Redskins.
I also know that RobsObs is going to put Campbell under the microscope and will magnify any little error that includes footwork on certain plays, throwing motion, and hair style. It doesn't matter what he does. Anything short of a Pro Bowl year, and RobsObs will say that Campbell is a failure.
Where or when have I indicated that the O-line or any other part of the Redskins is the greatest since the dawn of time? I don't know what you are reading, but you take what I write and then assume I mean something completely different. Must be the Mad Dog you have stashed in your desk.
HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO KEEP SAYING THAT I LIKE JC, BUT HE IS GOING TO MAKE MISTAKES! Geez dude, you and Deepie have higher expectations for him than I do. I expect his TD to Interception ratio to be weak - THAT IS WHAT HAPPENS TO YOUNG QBs.
I am being objective and very fair to JC. You on the other hand are Hell-bent on having a different set of rules for Rex.
The numbers may be ambitious, but he had 10 TDs and 6 picks in his 7 starts last year. With some improvement and 16 games this season, why shouldn't I expect what I said?
As JKD reiterated, my concern isn't how many TDs he throws. It's the Rexy-like mistakes I don't want to see. A few here and there with obvious signs of growth is what I want. It's difficult to gauge what I'm asking for but I'll quantify it like this...
I expect a QB rating of 80, 24 TDs, and no more than 16 INTs. If his performance is the primary reason why they lose four games (they could lose more games due to poor defense or other reasons), I'll be saying we should have drafted Brady Quinn!
History is not limited to how Rex played last year.
I approach this season like Jay Schroeder becoming the starter in '86. Schroeder threw a bunch of INTs that year but led the team to a 12-4 record and got to the NFC Championship game. Despite his numbers, he was good and he was never the reason why the 'Skins lost games.
This 'Skins team is nowhere near the level that the great '80s teams were at so I don't expect J.C. to throw for 4000+ yards or go to the Pro Bowl like Schroeder did. I just want J.C. to show that he can play and not be THE reason why they lose if they should lose. That's my expectation. The numbers I listed indicate that the QB had a good season...not great, just good. That will be enough for me so I don't think I'm unreasonable. All I'm saying is Rexy's numbers last year would be a disappointment because I think J.C. is a better QB prospect.
24-16 are Pro Bowl numbers. I am not limiting my reference to history to just Rex.
If you look through NFL history, you will find that very, very few QBs went into their first full year and threw 24 TDs and only 16 interceptions.
Let's look more closely at Schroeder. Jay Schroeder played in 9 games in 1985 and threw 5 TDs and 5 interceptions. In 1986, his first full year as the starter he threw 22 TDs and 22 interceptions and the Redskins finished 12-4.
He did this with the powerhouse Redskins of the 1980s. But, you think JC will come in and defy NFL history to throw 24 TDs and 16 INTs.
You also are now arguing that Jay was fine with comparable numbers to Rex, but Rex was somehow subpar. Even though Rex had a better completion percentage, passer rating (72.9 vs. 73.9), 1 more TD, and a better TD to Interception ratio. Oh yeah, and the Bears went 13-3, and Rex played well in the two NFC playoff games and got the Bears to the Super Bowl. Jay Schroeder and the Redskins were blanked by the Giants 17-0 in the NFC Championship game as the Giants beat the Redskins 3 times that year.
Then you call me biased. Look in the mirror - both of you.
Read what I said about Schroeder again. I said his numbers weren't great, but he was never the reason why the Redskins lost games that year. They lost two games to the eventual Super Bowl Champs in the Giants, a one point loss to the Broncos in Denver, and one other game which I can't remember at this point. Schroeder was a significant contributor to winning that year. The league recognized it and named him to the Pro Bowl. So Rexy had better numbers. It doesn't mean diddly because unlike Schroeder, Rexy was the reason why the Bears lost games last year.
As I've been saying all along, J.C.'s numbers won't matter to me as much as the results and signs of improvement. 24-16 may be optimistic, but that's the type of production I am hoping for and I believe it is possible.
Last year, Rex threw 23 TD passes. I looked it up. Over the last 6 seasons, QBs have thrown more than 23 TDs in a season 45 times (out of a possible 192 chances, if you figure 32 teams times 6 seasons).
Thus, over the last 6 seasons, only 23% of NFL QBs throw 24 or more TDs a year. Good luck to JC hitting that number. NFL history is against him.
That also makes Rex's accomplishment another reason to believe he has significant upside and that he can be a solid player if he is able to cut down his mistakes.
Going back to Schroeder for a minute. There is some discrepancy here, RobsObs. I just don't get it. Fine, the numbers were similar but Schroeder was voted into the Pro Bowl. Rexy was a joke when his name was brought up for Pro Bowl consideration. Those commercials with him and Muhsin in the locker room texting in their votes became a joke.
Why was this the case? Don't tell me about the Bears playing in a big media market and all that because there is no media bigger than D.C. and the Redskins. No city (fan/media) get on their team like Washington so that argument won't hold water.
Once you remove Rexy's dingie from your arse, I'm sure you'll pull something else out from there and use as your reply. I can't wait.
24 TDs for JC is based on me expecting him to slightly improve on the pace he was on last year. In 7 games he threw 10 TD passes. Expand that out to 16 games and it's 22.86 TDs. Why would I sit here and write that I expect him to have a worse TD/game ratio than he did coming off the bench for the first starts of his career? So what if history isn't on his side. He showed that he could get the ball in the end zone last year and I think it will continue now that he has a better grasp of the offense...not to mention a complete off-season under his belt during which he has worked diligently to improve.
As I've said in the past, I hope Rexy improves and proves me wrong. He is the difference between the Bears being great and just very good. If he works on his reads and cuts down the mistakes, the Bears could be a very fun team to watch. I'd like to see it but I won't hold my breath.
And...what JKD said about Schroeder in his last post was the point I was trying to make. Schroeder's numbers may not have been quite as "good" as Rexy's were last year, but he was a key contributor to the team getting to the NFC championship. The fact that he was 20-50 with a pick in the Championship game doesn't mean much. The 'Skins were beaten by a team that many consider one of the best teams ever. The 'Skins couldn't beat the Giants in three tries that year. It wasn't because Schroeder didn't get the job done. They were simply beaten by a much better team.
Schroeder went to the Pro Bowl in '86 despite his numbers. He was considered one of the year's best QBs despite his numbers. Rexy had numbers but he was just about unanimously considered the reason why the Bears lost the Super Bowl last year. Numbers don't mean much when it comes to how I will assess J.C.'s performance because they are not directly tied to wins and losses. Brunell's '05 and even his '06 stats further prove this point. The 'Skins got into the playoffs in '05 due to strong defense and Portis. Brunell was widely considered the weak link in the 'Skins offense...even by me. In '06, even though Brunell was completing 62% of his passes and had twice as many TDs as INTs, it was clear that he was holding the offense back.
So, in summary, I expect good numbers out of J.C. but I won't care if he throws 20 picks next year. As long as he puts his team in a position to win when he has the opportunity and avoids critical Rexy-like mistakes, I will be very pleased with him as my team's QB.
I give you numbers and facts that you simply want to ignore. That is fine, but please don't accuse me of bias.
Vince Young was in the Pro Bowl last year. Look at his numbers. How about Ron Mexico in year's past? The Pro Bowl is not necessarily made up of the best players.
I am willing to wait and see on Rex and JC. I will say this, if you took Rex's first 7 games of last year, he was on pace to throw 30 TDs and 16 interceptions - it did not happen. You have to look over a full season. Teams recognize tendencies, guys play hurt, etc.
I say you have set up unrealistic expectations for the guy.
"Anyhoo, I agree with Deepie in that I am not concerned as much with the number of TDs but rather how many mistakes he makes. If his TD to INT ratio is as bad as Rexy's was last year, I'll be disappointed."
JKD, you said that in one of your posts. Then when I show you that Jay's numbers were worse than Rex you want to just disregard that.
Your point with Vince is exactly the point Deepie and I are trying to make. His numbers may have been worse but he was by far the better player than Rexy. Vince played on a terrible team that started the season 0-5 and took them to the brink of the playoffs. He made a number of plays by himself to win games. He was a difference maker. They ended up going 8-3 the rest of the season and even beat the Super Bowl Champion Colts (lost to them 14-13 in their other game).
Again, stats don't count for everything. You have to look a little deeper than that and see if the guy was an actual difference maker.
I was critical of Brunell's play even though his numbers were decent in 2005. There is more than just numbers.
Rob, You're missing the point. I keep saying the numbers are NOT important. Just because I ignore your numbers doesn't mean I'm biased. In fact, I am being completely unbiased. I say take away the numbers and look at each QB objectively. What is important are the intangibles that promote winning. Throwing the ball away when in doubt, hitting timing routes, accuracy, decisiveness, leadership...Those are the things I want to see from J.C. Yes I did say that I'd be disappointed if J.C. has as bad a TD:INT ratio as Rexy did last year. I said that because it would indicate that he made a bunch of mistakes. Rexy had decent numbers last year, but no one except for you apparently will say that he played well enough to help the team win in their 4 losses last year. In fact, if it weren't for the defense and special teams, Grossman would have at least cost them the first win against the Vikings and the Arizona game. The Super Bowl lies squarely on his shoulders.
I ignore your numbers and facts because you keep saying the numbers don't lie. I'm saying Rexy's numbers last year do in fact lie. He had a few amazing games that skew his numbers to make him look like he did better than he did. The fans and the players/coaches clearly saw this when he wasn't even considered for the Pro-Bowl. J.C. on the other hand was amazingly consistent during his 7 starts. He made very few costly mistakes that weren't attributable to inexperience. I felt confident that J.C. was helping the team each week. Did you go into each Bears game with confidence that Rexy wouldn't cost your team the game last year? If you did, you need to get off the Rexy-reefer dude. The rest of the NFL world knew that the defense and special teams were solid. The only question mark all year was at QB.
Deepie, I have NEVER, EVER argued that Rex "played well enough to help the team win in their 4 losses last year."
I have consistently said that he was inconsistent at times last year because of his youth. I also have said that he has been unfairly criticized if you consider how other players performed in their first and second years. My feeling is that he will get better this year with more experience. THAT IS WHAT I ARGUE.
You are just plain wrong when you say, "The Super Bowl lies squarely on his shoulders." The defense could not stop the Colts. Rex did not help the cause with his 4th quarter, but certainly between the D and the horrible play calling, it was certainly not his fault.
The reason I believe Rex has great signs of promise is that only he and Peyton Manning tied for having 7 games with QB ratings over 100 in the NFL. Tom Brady didn't do it. Drew Brees didn't do it. Carson Palmer didn't do it. Vince Young certainly did not do that. You know how many games JC had a passer rating over 100? None!
After Tommie Harris and Mike Brown went down with season ending injuries, the D was nowhere near the same. If he didn't have the big games against Tampa and St. Louis down the stretch, they probably lose those games because the D really faltered. Then, they may have found themselves playing the NFC Championship game on the road.
Rex had a lot more great games than he had poor games. Inconsistency is what happens with young QBs, but Rex has shown more than enough to believe that he can be a very good NFL QB. He just has to cut down on the mistakes. He will either do it or not. I say he will. You guys say cut him loose right now because he is terrible. I have facts and data to support my position, you on the other hand just want to be sheep and follow the crowd of critics.
45 comments:
It's not really all that funny. Cowherd provided false "facts" and misquoted and misrepresented what Rex said about his performance against Green Bay.
In addition, look up the Sun-Times poll before the playoffs started. More than half of Chicago fans wanted Rex over Griese in the playoffs.
I actually listen to Colin Cowherd regularly - I disagree with him quite often (and I am not talking about just Rex or the Bears). If you listen to him, you will find yourself disagreeing with him quite often also.
No. It is funny.
Here is the actual quote:
"In this league, especially at this position, you have to bring it every single week, no matter what," Grossman told the Chicago Sun-Times for Thursday's editions. "And the situation was I felt like I was going to play about a half, and it was the last game, it was New Year's Eve -- there were so many other factors that brought my focus away from what is actually important, and that's something that I am never going to do again.
"There is too much I am responsible for to not give it 100 percent during the week and just the full attention," Grossman said. "It's another lesson."
I'm not sure how you interpret the quote but I take it literally and my understanding is that because he said that it was the last game, he thought he was only going to play a half, and it was New Year's eve, he lost focus and wasn't as serious. Because of the "so many other factors," he did not give the game a 100% OR his full attention.
How do you interpret the quote?
Rex told the truth about what he felt and was apologetic for not feeling focused. What I really object to is Cowherd's bashing of Rex for being forthright. You think if he had said, "I was really prepared and focused, but sometimes things just don't work out" it would have changed any of the criticism that he faced? Please. Cowherd would have still bashed him.
It was a meaningless game and given how the Bears played that night, I think a lot of guys took the night off. That said, what is wrong with what he said?
Read the following, it is a good defense for Rex just being honest.
http://www.dailyherald.com/sports/bears.asp?id=269340
So when Tim Couch cried because he thought he fans were too rough on him or when Heath Shuler said that he was having difficulty throwing because the new Wilson balls had "schlack" on them, you are okay with their honesty?
You don't think it would have been better for all three of these players to give a more PC type of answer?
That's the thing about you. If Heath Shuler had said what Rexy said OR if Mark Brunell had said what "3 a day" had said, you would be singing a different tune.
This is why you are silly and this is why I find only increased humor in this whole thing.
I don't care what Tim Couch said. A lot of guys say that - that is being honest. I didn't criticize him for it.
Heath's problem is that there is nothing he can do about "schlack." That kind of comment means that he cannot play in the NFL because the balls don't work for him. It is a silly comment that in now way is comparable to what Rex said.
Brunell would never have said what Rex said. Instead, he gives PC answers and says, "we have to get better as a team." Just after coming off of a horrible game with 50 yards passing and 2 interceptions.
You bash Rex for telling the truth. You think he is the only one who ever lost some focus before a meaningless game, in the rain, on New Year's Day? Unlike Brunell, Rex is honest and took responsibility. You would rather get the canned answer. That is up to you.
RobsObs, are you serious? When do athletes tell it like it is? There are so many cliche quotes that athletes need to give in order not to draw attention to themselves. I'm sure players dog it on certain plays and aren't as focused as they need to be in certain games. You know this, right? I don't think you are silly enough not to know this.
If a guy goes out and gets drunk the night before a game and then struggles and then is asked about it, would you want him to tell the truth?
Yeah, I would love for people to be honest in the public. I would love for ALL athletes, politicians, entertainers, and those in the public eye to be up front and tell us how they really feel and their real agendas. Got news for you, pal...not going to happen.
Rexy is dumb to even insinuate that he didn't give it his full effort and dogged the game. He didn't even insinuate it. He flat out said it. It's dumb. It makes you look like a fool and it does nothing to help you in the fans eyes.
What Shuler said was dumb. The smart thing to say would have been that he struggled and made some bad plays and he has to learn. Sure, it is of a canned answer but it will protect him from looking like a fool.
You want athletes to be truthful. Rex was and you still bash him. What do you want - truth or cliches?
You can be truthful and still be dumb. He was dumb for what he said. Shuler was dumb for what he said.
Do you think it was a dumb thing he said, especially given his troubled situation already with the fans/media?
RobsObs, do you understand how the media works? Do you think it would be smart for politicians, athletes, entertainers, etc. to be honest in all of their interviews and provide full disclosure?
I know how the media works. Basically they want to sell papers or gather listeners/viewers to their station. Controversy sells.
Personally, I don't have any trouble with what he said. I find it refreshing that he was willing to be open and honest. Because of people like you, he won't be in the future. So we can be treated to Brunell-like responses.
That is what you prefer, otherwise you wouldn't be such a critic.
Brunell-like responses! Ha Ha HA!
You're ridiculous, RobsObs. 99% of entertainers, politicians, athlestes than give "Brunell-like" responses. Have you watched sports interviews before? Have you watched political debates before? When do people give open, honest answers with full disclosure?
Again, I would prefer for all of these folks to be honest. That doesn't mean I can't have an opinion on what they say or make fun of them. That is well within my right.
We both made fun of Shuler when he made his comment. It was dumb. So was Rexy when he said that he didn't give full effort and dogged it. You would have to agree with me on that. Your love of Rexy clouds your judgement and makes you very biased.
I agreed with you in not liking Brunell's answers and wished he was more honest. If he said that he was old and didn't have any more strength in his arms/legs, I would have laughed my ass off and thought he just committed career suicide but part of me would have respected him for telling the truth.
I think Marbury was ridiculous when he said that he doesn't care about wins or losses only that he gets paid. It's silly but I suppose refreshing in that he was honest and he's not the only one that feels that way.
I wish Bonds would come out and flat out say that he used steroids and HGH. I wish gay athletes would come out and disclose that right now. It would be refreshing to hear the truth but again, they would be setting themselves up as HUGE targets.
Don't you get it, RobsObs? You're silly!
You don't want the truth. When a guy like Rex tells you the truth you just make fun of him.
Don't expect any better if you are going to be a basher.
You made fun of Shuler. You are no better. You are a hypocrite.
If it had been a Redskin QB that made Rexy's comment, you would have been all over him. You are a hypocrite.
I told you the difference between Shuler and Rex's comments. Look it up.
You have this really odd habit of writing what you think I would say or write in hypothetical situations. If I never say or write such things, it is ridiculous to accuse me of being a hypocrite. How can I be a hypocrite if I never said or wrote what you accuse me of being a hypocrite about.
It is like me saying, you criticize Rex because he is a Bear, but I know you really like him secretly and would love to have him on your team. YOU ARE A HYPOCRITE. Obviously, that does not make any sense, but that is exactly what you do - you make up things that you think I would say and then call me a hypocrite. It is inane.
RobsObs, tell me honestly. If Mark Brunell or Jason Campbell had said the exact same thing, would you have had the same reaction?
Also, do you want full disclosure of what athletes are thinking/feeling and why they don't perform well in certain games? Would you want players to tell you they took certain plays off/the game off because their head just wasn't into it?
If that's what you wanted, do you think that by saying those things, it would have an adverse impact on their job/career?
Please don't give a long diatribe or skirt around the questions. "Yes" or "No" and if you want to include a short explanation will suffice.
Honestly - I DON'T KNOW. It would certainly depend on the situation.
But what I do know is that there is no way that YOU KNOW what I would say.
I don't think what Rex said is particularly damaging. It was New Year's, it was the last game of the season, the Bears were not playing for anything. He said he made a mistake, learned his lesson, and would never let his teammates down again. What is the big deal?
I certainly don't think the comment is going to hurt his career, because most reasonable people can understand that given the circumstances, not much was on the line.
If he had said that after the Super Bowl, playoff game, a season opener, or even a game in the middle of the year when they were still fighting for a playoff spot, then we might have something to talk about.
Depend on the situation, huh? Oh, I get it. The situation is if the Redskins say it, then you think it is ridiculous but if a Bear says it, it is "refreshing." I like your line of thinking!
RobsObs, it wasn't horrific what he said but it was still dumb. You are the professional QB for an NFL team in a large market. You get paid to perform. You work 16 days out of the year (not including playoffs) and you better always give it your 100% effort. As a fan, I expect nothing less. For me to accept a player dogging it is ridiculous. It was dumb what he said. It wasn't catastrophic but it was still dumb. WOO HOO! New Year's EVE!! PAR-TAYYYYYY!!!! C'mon, that's silly. I mean even if that is what was on your mind, have the good sense not to say it. You are a QB that is already under the microscope and the fans/media are all on your back. That is not the way to draw them closer to you. It was dumb.
I am honestly finding this discussion amusing as the more I think about the quote, the more ridiculous it is that he said it. He sure has some balls to admit that he wasn't in the game and he dogged it because he was thinking about the PAR-TAYYYYY!!!! I'll give him that.
Silly Rob and JKD.
You two make me laugh. Please don't stop this nut-kicking contest and kiss and make up anytime soon. It's too funny.
First of all, Cowherd is an idiot. He says things that, honestly, I don't think he really believes just to get a rise out of his audience. For instance, once last year he was doing his show from a bar in downtown Chicago and he ranked the top five NFC teams. #1 - Dallas...#5 - da Bears. He got an earful from the bar patrons and he enjoyed it. I think he's the one who should have his nuts kicked in.
Second, RobOb, it seems that you do what Cowherd does with your posts as well. I can see you sitting there laughing as you post something deliberately to piss others off. I must say it's a talent, but to constantly disagree with everyone else is ridiculous.
Third...on to Rexy. Face it. The guy is plain average. He benefits from being on a great team, yet the team doesn't benefit from him. They just hope he doesn't screw up too much. He's like Trent Dilfer was on the Ravens...with the team praying, "please don't screw up." The difference is, Dilfer didn't screw up. He wasn't great but he didn't make stupid mistakes and they won a Super Bowl because of it.
Yes, Rexy is young. Yes, he has had great games, but so did Gus Frerotte. The team sticks up for him because they know Griese won't provide much more and because there's more upside with Rexy. That's it. They don't have confidence that he'll be a difference maker in a positive way. He's just their best hope considering the alternatives.
I hope Rexy gets better. The Bears could be a brutal, punishing team if gets better. Right now, however, other teams know they have a chance against them because Rexy is the QB. And given that the running game lost TJ, opposing defenses will key in on Rexy more...I'm sure scouts see the same thing I see with Benson...He's pretty good as a change of pace but he's not big enough or durable enough to be a 25-30 carry a game back in the NFL.
Finally, comparing J.C. to Rexy at this point doesn't make much sense. As JKD has said in the past, Rexy has entered 3 NFL seasons as the #1 guy. This is J.C.'s first as the man. Simply being in the NFL for a few years should be a huge advantage for Rexy over J.C. Look at Mark Rypien. He didn't play a down for 4 years, but when he came in, he was one of the top QBs in the league for the next four years...with 2 pro-bowls and a Super Bowl MVP to prove it. Rexy's team is probably better than the team's Ryp had...I don't see Rexy going to the pro-bowl any time soon. J.C. started 7 games last year. He had a higher QB rating and a much better TD to interception ratio than Rexy even though he was on a lousy team. I won't compare the two directly, but it seems that Rexy should be way ahead of the curve when compared to J.C., but he's not. You said so yourself, RobOb. J.C. is where Rexy was last year. That really isn't saying much for Rexy at all.
You did it again - "if the Redskins say it, then you think it is ridiculous but if a Bear says it, it is "refreshing."
Where did I write or say that?
You asked me if Brunell or JC had said the same thing, would I criticize them. Well, if it were after the after the Super Bowl, a playoff game, a season opener, or even a game in the middle of the year when they were still fighting for a playoff spot then I would criticize them - just as I said I would do about Rex.
That is what I mean by "it would depend on the situation."
If the Redskins had clinched home field, were playing a meaningless game on New Year's and JC performed poorly - I wouldn't give a damn. The game would be meaningless.
Deepie, I have made the point that JC today, is where Rex was last year. I have also said that JC will make his share of mistakes just like Rex did last year. Let's see what happens.
Rex is no Dilfer. Dilfer played for 6 years and started for 5 years in the NFL before he moved on to Baltimore. Dilfer's first year as a starter resulted in 4 TDs and 18 INTs.
If you look up QB stats throughout history, my guess is that you will find very few QBs who threw 23 TDs in their first year as a pro. You will find plenty who threw a lot of INTs. The good to great QBs get better as they play more games and they cut down on the mistakes. That is what I expect Rex to do.
Com'on Rob. With Berrian and a stud like Muhammad, a very good o-line and an excellent running back like TJ, I could have thrown 23 TDs. Very few QBs throw 23 TDs in a season regardless of how much experience they have. With as good as the Bears were last year, there was no way he could have thrown less TDs. The only games when Rexy was a difference maker were early in the season during the brief undefeated run and in the NFC Championship. He was a liability in every other game.
Yes you made the point that J.C. is where Rexy was last year. That's what I said. What I also said was that it doesn't say much for Rexy. Last year was Rexy's third year as the starter entering the season. He had the benefit of tons of progressions with the first team for 3 off-seasons. He had a stud running back and very good receivers. He had a solid o-line. The mistakes he made were his own fault and it probably has to do with his lax approach to the game. Maybe he's changed since making a fool out of himself after the Green Bay game, but if that's how he approached games last year, it would explain a lot.
Rexy is the Randy Moss of QBs right now. Unfortunately for him, he has never excelled like Moss to allow himself some slack when it comes to his perception in the media. I can assure you that J.C. will never say he had New Year's parties on his mind and that he couldn't focus 100%. He's a consummate professional...it's clear as day and it will result in success. Maybe not 23 TDs worth, but definitely in terms of consistency and productivity.
If Brunell or Campbell were to say the same thing, I would be just as critical and say that it was ridiculous. I don't care whether we clinched home field advantage or not. I would still be upset that my QB said that he didn't give full effort and dogged it the game going into the playoffs because he was thinking about the PAR-TAYYY! It would particularly concern me if the QB was struggling in the latter part of the season going into the playoffs.
Rexy was not in his first year as a pro last year. It was his third year as the Bears starting QB. If you look at his first year as the starter, he was on pace for a 5 TD and 15 INT season. Keep in mind, Rexy played last season on a team with an outstanding defense and great special teams that won games by themselves. It sure makes it easier on a QB, when you have those types of teams leading the way. Wouldn't you agree on this?
Deepie, at least you recognize how difficult it is for ANY NFL QB to throw 23 TDs in a season. Although the funny thing is that you don't want to give him credit for it.
Also Deepie, with a supposedly great offensive line, Portis and Betts, Cooley, Moss and Randle El, and the great coaching. JC better get 23 TDs this year, otherwise you may want to submit your resume to the Redskins, seeing how you could have thrown 23 TD passes for the Bears last year.
I'll expect you to criticize JC if he doesn't throw at least 20 TDs.
I'm not so concerned with how many TDs J.C. throws as I am in how many mistakes he makes. If his TD to INT ratio is as bad as Rexy's was last year, I'll be disappointed. I'll also be disappointed if he is extremely inconsistent and carries himself in a way that a leader should not...body language will speak volumes. Given his work ethic and everything we're hearing about him this off-season, I don't think I'll have to worry much.
My guess is 24 TDs and 16 INTs.
24 TDs and 16 INTs? Man, I'm glad you don't set the bar too high.
Peyton Manning's second year with the Colts ended up 26-28 and then 26-15.
Ben Roethlisberger went 17-11 and 17-9 his first two years.
Tom Brady went 18-12 and then 28-14 in his first two years.
Brett Favre went 18-13, 19-24 in his first two years.
I suppose you have already punched a ticket for JC to Canton.
RobsObs, I love how you twist things and make it seem like Deepie (and I) said that the Redskins have the greatest offensive line, players, coaches, schemes, etc. since the dawn of the NFL. We have been critical of the team. That's the difference. You got your head waist deep up Rexy's cornhole, it has affected your judgement.
Yes, we feel good about the offense but you have long been complaining about the age of the O-line and I have repeatedly pointed out that it is younger than the Bears O-line and they had better numbers than the Bears last year so yes, it is solid.
Anyhoo, I agree with Deepie in that I am not concerned as much with the number of TDs but rather how many mistakes he makes. If his TD to INT ratio is as bad as Rexy's was last year, I'll be disappointed. I'll also be disappointed if he is extremely inconsistent and carries himself in a way that a leader should not and says stupid shat like I didn't give 100% and I am dogging it.
I do agree that Deepie's numbers are ambitious. I am basically looking to see if Jason Campbell is the future QB of the Redskins.
I also know that RobsObs is going to put Campbell under the microscope and will magnify any little error that includes footwork on certain plays, throwing motion, and hair style. It doesn't matter what he does. Anything short of a Pro Bowl year, and RobsObs will say that Campbell is a failure.
Where or when have I indicated that the O-line or any other part of the Redskins is the greatest since the dawn of time? I don't know what you are reading, but you take what I write and then assume I mean something completely different. Must be the Mad Dog you have stashed in your desk.
HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO KEEP SAYING THAT I LIKE JC, BUT HE IS GOING TO MAKE MISTAKES! Geez dude, you and Deepie have higher expectations for him than I do. I expect his TD to Interception ratio to be weak - THAT IS WHAT HAPPENS TO YOUNG QBs.
I am being objective and very fair to JC. You on the other hand are Hell-bent on having a different set of rules for Rex.
The numbers may be ambitious, but he had 10 TDs and 6 picks in his 7 starts last year. With some improvement and 16 games this season, why shouldn't I expect what I said?
As JKD reiterated, my concern isn't how many TDs he throws. It's the Rexy-like mistakes I don't want to see. A few here and there with obvious signs of growth is what I want. It's difficult to gauge what I'm asking for but I'll quantify it like this...
I expect a QB rating of 80, 24 TDs, and no more than 16 INTs. If his performance is the primary reason why they lose four games (they could lose more games due to poor defense or other reasons), I'll be saying we should have drafted Brady Quinn!
RobsObs, please wipe your nose. You still have some of Rexy's shat covered corn niblets on it from when you had your head stuck up his butthole.
We know your games and we see right through you. Please just cut it out and wipe your nose.
Man Deepie, you really do set a high bar. History says you will be disappointed.
JKD - you are just plain rude.
History is not limited to how Rex played last year.
I approach this season like Jay Schroeder becoming the starter in '86. Schroeder threw a bunch of INTs that year but led the team to a 12-4 record and got to the NFC Championship game. Despite his numbers, he was good and he was never the reason why the 'Skins lost games.
This 'Skins team is nowhere near the level that the great '80s teams were at so I don't expect J.C. to throw for 4000+ yards or go to the Pro Bowl like Schroeder did. I just want J.C. to show that he can play and not be THE reason why they lose if they should lose. That's my expectation. The numbers I listed indicate that the QB had a good season...not great, just good. That will be enough for me so I don't think I'm unreasonable. All I'm saying is Rexy's numbers last year would be a disappointment because I think J.C. is a better QB prospect.
Amen!
24-16 are Pro Bowl numbers. I am not limiting my reference to history to just Rex.
If you look through NFL history, you will find that very, very few QBs went into their first full year and threw 24 TDs and only 16 interceptions.
Let's look more closely at Schroeder. Jay Schroeder played in 9 games in 1985 and threw 5 TDs and 5 interceptions. In 1986, his first full year as the starter he threw 22 TDs and 22 interceptions and the Redskins finished 12-4.
He did this with the powerhouse Redskins of the 1980s. But, you think JC will come in and defy NFL history to throw 24 TDs and 16 INTs.
You also are now arguing that Jay was fine with comparable numbers to Rex, but Rex was somehow subpar. Even though Rex had a better completion percentage, passer rating (72.9 vs. 73.9), 1 more TD, and a better TD to Interception ratio. Oh yeah, and the Bears went 13-3, and Rex played well in the two NFC playoff games and got the Bears to the Super Bowl. Jay Schroeder and the Redskins were blanked by the Giants 17-0 in the NFC Championship game as the Giants beat the Redskins 3 times that year.
Then you call me biased. Look in the mirror - both of you.
AMEN!
RobOb,
Read what I said about Schroeder again. I said his numbers weren't great, but he was never the reason why the Redskins lost games that year. They lost two games to the eventual Super Bowl Champs in the Giants, a one point loss to the Broncos in Denver, and one other game which I can't remember at this point. Schroeder was a significant contributor to winning that year. The league recognized it and named him to the Pro Bowl. So Rexy had better numbers. It doesn't mean diddly because unlike Schroeder, Rexy was the reason why the Bears lost games last year.
As I've been saying all along, J.C.'s numbers won't matter to me as much as the results and signs of improvement. 24-16 may be optimistic, but that's the type of production I am hoping for and I believe it is possible.
Oh OK, so Rex had better numbers and lost fewer games. But, Jay was better. I'm sure you remember every game.
Jay Shroeder in the NFC Championship Game: 20 of 50 for 150 yards and 1 interception. Redskins lost 17-0.
Last year, Rex threw 23 TD passes. I looked it up. Over the last 6 seasons, QBs have thrown more than 23 TDs in a season 45 times (out of a possible 192 chances, if you figure 32 teams times 6 seasons).
Thus, over the last 6 seasons, only 23% of NFL QBs throw 24 or more TDs a year. Good luck to JC hitting that number. NFL history is against him.
That also makes Rex's accomplishment another reason to believe he has significant upside and that he can be a solid player if he is able to cut down his mistakes.
Going back to Schroeder for a minute. There is some discrepancy here, RobsObs. I just don't get it. Fine, the numbers were similar but Schroeder was voted into the Pro Bowl. Rexy was a joke when his name was brought up for Pro Bowl consideration. Those commercials with him and Muhsin in the locker room texting in their votes became a joke.
Why was this the case? Don't tell me about the Bears playing in a big media market and all that because there is no media bigger than D.C. and the Redskins. No city (fan/media) get on their team like Washington so that argument won't hold water.
Once you remove Rexy's dingie from your arse, I'm sure you'll pull something else out from there and use as your reply. I can't wait.
Rob,
24 TDs for JC is based on me expecting him to slightly improve on the pace he was on last year. In 7 games he threw 10 TD passes. Expand that out to 16 games and it's 22.86 TDs. Why would I sit here and write that I expect him to have a worse TD/game ratio than he did coming off the bench for the first starts of his career? So what if history isn't on his side. He showed that he could get the ball in the end zone last year and I think it will continue now that he has a better grasp of the offense...not to mention a complete off-season under his belt during which he has worked diligently to improve.
As I've said in the past, I hope Rexy improves and proves me wrong. He is the difference between the Bears being great and just very good. If he works on his reads and cuts down the mistakes, the Bears could be a very fun team to watch. I'd like to see it but I won't hold my breath.
And...what JKD said about Schroeder in his last post was the point I was trying to make. Schroeder's numbers may not have been quite as "good" as Rexy's were last year, but he was a key contributor to the team getting to the NFC championship. The fact that he was 20-50 with a pick in the Championship game doesn't mean much. The 'Skins were beaten by a team that many consider one of the best teams ever. The 'Skins couldn't beat the Giants in three tries that year. It wasn't because Schroeder didn't get the job done. They were simply beaten by a much better team.
Schroeder went to the Pro Bowl in '86 despite his numbers. He was considered one of the year's best QBs despite his numbers. Rexy had numbers but he was just about unanimously considered the reason why the Bears lost the Super Bowl last year. Numbers don't mean much when it comes to how I will assess J.C.'s performance because they are not directly tied to wins and losses. Brunell's '05 and even his '06 stats further prove this point. The 'Skins got into the playoffs in '05 due to strong defense and Portis. Brunell was widely considered the weak link in the 'Skins offense...even by me. In '06, even though Brunell was completing 62% of his passes and had twice as many TDs as INTs, it was clear that he was holding the offense back.
So, in summary, I expect good numbers out of J.C. but I won't care if he throws 20 picks next year. As long as he puts his team in a position to win when he has the opportunity and avoids critical Rexy-like mistakes, I will be very pleased with him as my team's QB.
I give you numbers and facts that you simply want to ignore. That is fine, but please don't accuse me of bias.
Vince Young was in the Pro Bowl last year. Look at his numbers. How about Ron Mexico in year's past? The Pro Bowl is not necessarily made up of the best players.
I am willing to wait and see on Rex and JC. I will say this, if you took Rex's first 7 games of last year, he was on pace to throw 30 TDs and 16 interceptions - it did not happen. You have to look over a full season. Teams recognize tendencies, guys play hurt, etc.
I say you have set up unrealistic expectations for the guy.
"Anyhoo, I agree with Deepie in that I am not concerned as much with the number of TDs but rather how many mistakes he makes. If his TD to INT ratio is as bad as Rexy's was last year, I'll be disappointed."
JKD, you said that in one of your posts. Then when I show you that Jay's numbers were worse than Rex you want to just disregard that.
You are the one who is inconsistent and biased.
Your point with Vince is exactly the point Deepie and I are trying to make. His numbers may have been worse but he was by far the better player than Rexy. Vince played on a terrible team that started the season 0-5 and took them to the brink of the playoffs. He made a number of plays by himself to win games. He was a difference maker. They ended up going 8-3 the rest of the season and even beat the Super Bowl Champion Colts (lost to them 14-13 in their other game).
Again, stats don't count for everything. You have to look a little deeper than that and see if the guy was an actual difference maker.
I was critical of Brunell's play even though his numbers were decent in 2005. There is more than just numbers.
Rob,
You're missing the point. I keep saying the numbers are NOT important. Just because I ignore your numbers doesn't mean I'm biased. In fact, I am being completely unbiased. I say take away the numbers and look at each QB objectively. What is important are the intangibles that promote winning. Throwing the ball away when in doubt, hitting timing routes, accuracy, decisiveness, leadership...Those are the things I want to see from J.C. Yes I did say that I'd be disappointed if J.C. has as bad a TD:INT ratio as Rexy did last year. I said that because it would indicate that he made a bunch of mistakes. Rexy had decent numbers last year, but no one except for you apparently will say that he played well enough to help the team win in their 4 losses last year. In fact, if it weren't for the defense and special teams, Grossman would have at least cost them the first win against the Vikings and the Arizona game. The Super Bowl lies squarely on his shoulders.
I ignore your numbers and facts because you keep saying the numbers don't lie. I'm saying Rexy's numbers last year do in fact lie. He had a few amazing games that skew his numbers to make him look like he did better than he did. The fans and the players/coaches clearly saw this when he wasn't even considered for the Pro-Bowl. J.C. on the other hand was amazingly consistent during his 7 starts. He made very few costly mistakes that weren't attributable to inexperience. I felt confident that J.C. was helping the team each week. Did you go into each Bears game with confidence that Rexy wouldn't cost your team the game last year? If you did, you need to get off the Rexy-reefer dude. The rest of the NFL world knew that the defense and special teams were solid. The only question mark all year was at QB.
Vince Young is nowhere close to Rex.
Deepie, I have NEVER, EVER argued that Rex "played well enough to help the team win in their 4 losses last year."
I have consistently said that he was inconsistent at times last year because of his youth. I also have said that he has been unfairly criticized if you consider how other players performed in their first and second years. My feeling is that he will get better this year with more experience. THAT IS WHAT I ARGUE.
You are just plain wrong when you say, "The Super Bowl lies squarely on his shoulders." The defense could not stop the Colts. Rex did not help the cause with his 4th quarter, but certainly between the D and the horrible play calling, it was certainly not his fault.
The reason I believe Rex has great signs of promise is that only he and Peyton Manning tied for having 7 games with QB ratings over 100 in the NFL. Tom Brady didn't do it. Drew Brees didn't do it. Carson Palmer didn't do it. Vince Young certainly did not do that. You know how many games JC had a passer rating over 100? None!
After Tommie Harris and Mike Brown went down with season ending injuries, the D was nowhere near the same. If he didn't have the big games against Tampa and St. Louis down the stretch, they probably lose those games because the D really faltered. Then, they may have found themselves playing the NFC Championship game on the road.
Rex had a lot more great games than he had poor games. Inconsistency is what happens with young QBs, but Rex has shown more than enough to believe that he can be a very good NFL QB. He just has to cut down on the mistakes. He will either do it or not. I say he will. You guys say cut him loose right now because he is terrible. I have facts and data to support my position, you on the other hand just want to be sheep and follow the crowd of critics.
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