In a must win situation, the Skins fall short. We had our chances but we hurt ourselves. Thirteen penalties definitely hurt. I have said that typically most football games are decided by a handful of key plays. Yesterday was no exception. The key moment of the game was right before the first half. Skins went for it on a fourth and goal from the two yard line and came up short. With like two minutes left, the Panthers drove the ball the length of the field and scored a TD right before the half. Instead of taking a FG and possibly going into the half at 7-6, we found ourselves down 14-3. I will say that I didn’t have a real problem going for it on fourth down. We have done it a fair amount this season and mostly because we have RG3 and we have largely been successful so I didn’t have a big problem with the call.
We actually won the possession battle and the yardage but we couldn’t punch it in the end zone. Just disappointing.
The other play that was REALLY disappointing was I think it was a third and long and Newton threw a pass out to the left sideline to a wide open Panther WR who ran it down to around our 10 yard line. Clearly blown coverage but that is the kind of stuff that is extremely frustrating.
Also, frustrating was at the end when we are moving the ball and score twice but have the TDs called back because of penalties. It cost us a timeout AND the two minute warning. Not saying we would have won if one of those TDs counted but it would have hopefully allowed us to get the ball back with more time to do something.
The only positives I had from yesterday’s game was the play of Forbath who made some long FGs and has yet to miss one as a professional. I also liked the Homecoming event. Apparently it’s something that all the former Skins enjoyed and while some on the outside my think it is kind of corny, I think it is a good thing. Previously, former players were upset with Snyder for feeling shut out and now I think they feel good about being included in things. I know this is not game related but it was good to see all those I rooted for as a kid back.
Well, on to the bye week and some soul searching.
HTTR!!!
22 comments:
What a frustrating game to watch. I think the defensive problems are obvious. We can't get to the QB, which is a huge problem considering the quality of the secondary. The mental gaffes in the secondary are an ongoing problem.
I had a few issues with the offense yesterday. Despite Morris averaging nearly 6 yards per carry, we got away from the run in the 2nd half. With Griffin dropping back to pass just about every play, the Panthers' secondary just sat back and prevented us from going over the top with a big play. The dink and dunk stuff is ok if you mix it up a little, but we didn't and we ended up with few points to show for it.
What's really bugging me is that, once again, we started the season fairly well, but it seems that opposing teams have figured us out and we can't seem to compete anymore. There's a flaw in the coaching of this team and we now have 3 years of history showing that the Shanaplan may be the problem.
I'm actually good with the "Shanaplan." I never expected playoffs this season.
What you have to like is that we have turned the roster over and gotten much younger and deeper. We have a superstar that we can build around in RG3. Morris is a gem. The zone blocking scheme for the run finally seemed to take shape late last season and into this season.
I think RG3 needs to get Garcon and Davis back as they are two big offensive weapons for us.
Defensively, I agree that we need to be able to get to the QB better. Obviously, losing Orakpo and Carriker hurts in that respect. Still, the big problem has been the secondary. Madieu sucks! Josh Wilson is average. I don't even know who is occupying the other safety position now. I am okay with D. Hall.
One can only hope that Meriweather helps when he returns. Still, it's just a weak secondary and needs to be addressed.
I do think that we are much better off now than in previous years and Shanallen have a big part to do with that. Coaches don't cause 13 penalties. We need additional talent and then just better execution.
I'm fine riding out this season with Shanny and barring a late season collapse where we get blown out in every game and it's obvious the team quits, we should bring him back for one more year. I think next year the real pressure would be on.
The Redskins were pretty lifeless and yhe Media and fans are calling for Shannys head. Most are forgetting that this is a rebuilding year. Cant expect too much. With what was given up for RG3 you have to let shanny have this year and next year. Shanny is at fault for seemingly admitting that he is packing this season in and going into eval mode. The Redskins are not very good and you have to go out and try to win. Its the same result for the redskins but they are better than previous years because they have RG3 and morris. Its been 2.5 years. Very hard to turn around a losing and old franchise in that short a timespan. ive said it before the key to redskins success hinges on how patient danny boy Is. If he succumbs to the fanatics "win now" pressure then this team will be forever losing.
Predictable. The Deadskins stink. As usual, the first few games got most Deadskin fans (and this year JSR joined in) all excited. But they are who most people know they are - the puny weaklings of the NFL.
Shanny's years in Denver following Elway's retirment were pretty lackluster. His D was always terrible there and the shift to the 3-4 was a mistake here is DC. He is coaching just like he did in Denver - perhaps a bit worse. He basically threw in the towel on this year after the game last night. That sucks if you are a player on this team.
Look at what Luck and Pagano's staff has done in Indy with a team that was 2-14 last year. That is a team that is on the rise. The Deadskins look like they have for the better part of the Snyderattospurriozornashanny years.
At least they have a franchise QB, but there is very little question that this team needs a whole lot more work and if they don't show a little more heart in coming weeks and actually win it will be a disaster of a season.
Here's the problem with the Shanaplan. He brought in a high priced WR (Garcon), drafted another in the 3rd round (Hankerson), and hand picked another FA (Morgan). The talent is still lacking. He signed Jammal Brown to a fairly big contract and the guy hasn't played since. He brought in Haslett and switched to the 3-4 and the D has been ranked in the 30s most of the time.
I understand that we're rebuilding, but a successful rebuilding process means steady improvement. There are at least a few areas where we've regressed - FS and SS to name a few. Josh Morgan isn't the answer at the starting CB spot and neither is D. Hall.
There's an interesting "Insider" article in today's Post. D Green and C. Mann were at the game yesterday for the alumni festivities. They were interviewed and basically called out the defensive coaches for not teaching proper technique. If the fundamentals are poor, it's on the coaches. I'm not calling for Shanny's head, but maybe I am calling for Haslett's head.
I def buy into this team being better than last years only because of the aquisition of RG3 and Morris. Im not sold on their receivers, offensive line, or their defensive unit and coaching. I was never really sold on Shanny. They should have been further along in year three. they still have a long way to go before being considered a good team. Does Shanny remain the coach through his contract? I dont know. I predict they will finish 5-11 this year. That would mean 6-10, 5-11, 5-11. I dont think any coach in the nfl can justify another season with those numbers and we all know how danny boy is. I think they need to be able to find more bargain deals like Morris. And im starting to think that they overpaid for rg3 simply because of the number of other choices out there that are playing equally or better. Tannehill, Wilson , luck , dalton , newton, ponder, bradford flacco ryan rodgers. It seems like with the rules now favoring offensive players and qbs that there is an increased number of successful young qbs and a higher probability of landing a productive qb. Maybe it was unneccessary to mortgage so much on one player. Instead, a talented well coached young qb with a strong supporting cast would have been better.
They will keep Shanny one more year but they will fire Haslett and go back to the 4-3. They are going to have to do a great job in free agency and hope that they get a couple of lucky hits in the draft in the later rounds to improve their secondary and get more depth at both the O and D lines. Their skill players on offense are fine, but they need to stay healthy.
Next year, they may get to 8-8. Then, it will be time to replace Shanny.
All of you are ridiculous! Especially Robs but I expect that nonsense from him.
Shanny has had to overhaul the Skins. To put it more into Robs terms, it's similar to Obama. He inherited a bunch of crap. Is the country fully rebounded since he took office? No. However, he has a plan/vision and I feel comfortable with his plan/vision moving forward. He has started it and while everyone wants immediate results, I feel comfortable with the direction of the country. When Obama took over the country was in dismay, we were facing economic disaster, the auto industry was collapsing, we were in severe debt, we were engaged in two wars, etc. Since he took office, he saved the auto industry, the economy is bouncing back, he ended one war and is on the verge of ending a second war, he caught the real culprit of 9/11. Again, I am comfortable with what he has done and the path we are on so I am for him continuing.
Back to the Skins, Shanny's first year was a mistake. He thought he could win with the shat he had and throwing in McNabb. That was a mistake. Last season, we began some turnover but still we were a weak team. This season the overhaul really took shape and we did get much younger, deeper. For me, this is the first true year of the rebuild. We have suffered because of injuries but that is no excuse. By no means are we "weaklings." Outside of the Steeler game, we could've (in some cases should've) won more games. I get it. It didn't happen. We are a young team trying to learn.
As far as Deepie's comments, the defense was ranked 13 last year. Safeties were a big concern going into this season and it was expected that Meriweather and Jackson would be good options. Unfortunately, Jackson is an idiot and Meriweather has been hurt. Thus, safety play has been weak. Run defense has been solid all year. It is the pass defense that has really hurt us. If that gets improved, we can/will be a much better team.
To JSR's point about overpaying for RG3, I am fine with the trade. RG3 was needed here. The guy is a supreme talent and a tremendous leader. All the guys you mentioned except for Rodgers have taken their lumps for poor play. RG3 is arguably the most dynamic player in the NFL. Assuming he continues on the track he is on, he will have a stellar career. It's still to early to tell how good (or bad) he will be.
Again, my take is that offensively we have made big strides with the additions of RG3, Morris, and our offense understanding the zone running scheme. Obviously, it hurts to lose Garcon and Davis to injuries but we'll be that much better when they return.
Defensively, I am still okay with the front seven. Again, it will be better with the returns of Orakpo and Carriker. Sure, it would be good to have an additional pass rusher but as a side effect of Orakpo's injury, Kerrigan is not as effective as offenses can focus on him.
We really need to revamp the secondary. A stronger secondary and we can arguably win the Rams, Bengals, and Giants games. That happens, we are not having this discussion.
Again, I say stay the course and give it at least one more year. I have said since training camp this is the first true year of the rebuild but next year is when Shanny faces real pressure. I am still sticking to that message.
Well my point is based on an observation that good/productive qbs seem to be easier to come by these days and maybe the redskins didnt need to sell the house to get a talented young franchise qb. Unless RG3 was the only individual they wanted. but i think that is not the case. They would have taken luck if they could have. Since the colts were bent on taking luck ill exclude him from the following question. Are the two additional first round draft picks and a second rounder worth the marginal performance difference in RG3 and Russell Wilson or Ryan Tannehill? At this point, in my opinion, no (assuming that RG3 has outperformed both which i dont think is the case with Wilson). I dont blame it on RG3. He is by far more talented than those other guys but how the coaching staff is using him and the results compared to the other young qbs in the league doesnt seem to highlight his superiority enough to justify the cost paid to bring him here and the hype associated with him. This just seems typical of the Redskins to again overpay for something and now suffer on the back end. Thats just not how successful franchises operate.
Not sure what I said is ridiculous. Shanny has decided the season is over. It may be true, but that is horrible coaching with 7 games to go.
JSR, I think we can all agree that both Luck and RG3 are better QBs than the other crop of rookie QBs that came out this year (Tannehill, Weeden, Wilson). We'll see as their careers unfold over the years who is better but I would much rather have RG3 than any of the QBs drafted after him.
Also, to compare the RG3 situation with previous "typical" Redskins behavior is not correct. This is very different than overspending for Haynesworth or having bloated contracts for Portis, Carter, Archuleta, Sanders, etc. This is some of the shat that Shanny inherited and has been trying to fix which he and Allen have done. We have gotten rid of a lot of fat and been much more fiscally conservative in their spending thus getting younger and deeper. That stuff could not be done overnight.
It should be very apparent to anyone that has followed the Skins that we are operating very differently now than when it was the Snyderatto era. Still, it will take some time to start reaping the benefits.
As far as Shanny's comments, apparently they were taken out of context and exploded into something more than what it should have been.
The thing is that all week the coaches AND players were talking about the Panther game being a must win game so there should be a feeling of great disappointment at the end of the game. Fletcher was even talking about how difficult playoffs would be with a loss.
Still, the comments were taken out of context and Shanny addressed it and is addressing it with his players today. I think he is stepping the pressure up on his players and expecting solid play for a full game for the remainder of the season. Of course, he was expecting this all season but I think the criticality of the situation is higher now.
Whatever. Media loves to create controversy and they will blow any little thing out of proportion.
To me it is a non issue.
I dont know man. 3-6 after starting strong seems very reminiscent of previous years. Especially since they Spent a lot to get a superstar and are still achieving poor results. The only difference is that the superstar they aquired is not a has been this time. They have gaping holes everywhere. Lack of depth. I feel like they would be better off with their future first rnd picks. Not saying RG3 isnt great but Im not convinced the price was worth it given that the skins could have gotten a good qb for much less and still had the resources (meaningful Draft picks) in future years to build around him. Selling the house for one namebrand superstar player seems more like a marketing ploy than a desire to build a championship team. They have huge holes to fill and have no way to fill them with young talent because theyve given all their resources (draftpicks) for one player. That is what the redskins have done the past 13 years and they seem to have done it again (in my opinion).
This maybe a rebuilding year but how much rebuilding can be done with no first round picks the next 2 years and a salary cap penalty to still absorb in the offseason?
I dont know man. 3-6 after starting strong seems very reminiscent of previous years. Especially since they Spent a lot to get a superstar and are still achieving poor results. The only difference is that the superstar they aquired is not a has been this time. They have gaping holes everywhere. Lack of depth. I feel like they would be better off with their future first rnd picks. Not saying RG3 isnt great but Im not convinced the price was worth it given that the skins could have gotten a good qb for much less and still had the resources (meaningful Draft picks) in future years to build around him. Selling the house for one namebrand superstar player seems more like a marketing ploy than a desire to build a championship team. They have huge holes to fill and have no way to fill them with young talent because theyve given all their resources (draftpicks) for one player. That is what the redskins have done the past 13 years and they seem to have done it again (in my opinion).
This maybe a rebuilding year but how much rebuilding can be done with no first round picks the next 2 years and a salary cap penalty to still absorb in the offseason?
It's clear we have gotten much younger. That much is a fact. We have also been able to build depth. Again, it's not all there but it's taking shape.
To me, it's been clear that there has been improvement this year. In previous years, we tried the quick fix and our performances during the season were VERY uneven and inconsistent. That is what you could/would expect with the teams that we built.
This season, the play seems much more consistent. The weak link all season has been the secondary. This was known going into the season.
The salary cap issue is something that Shanallen has to pay for from the Snyderatto era. It's just more crap they inherited.
Under Snyderatto we were always maxed out on the cap and would continuously be in poor shape as they would annually restructure contracts and push salaries out into the out years. Allen has been much more fiscally conservative and has brought some order to the cap. We have gotten rid of older, higher priced players that weren't worth their salaries (the fat) and we have been able to get younger and deeper with hungrier guys that aren't as expensive.
Again, you can't fix decades of ineptitude overnight. However, for the first time in decades, it does appear that we are building.
A question for you. Where are the huge holes that you are talking about? You said that we have "gaping holes everywhere" but specifically what positions are you talking about. We can all agree that the secondary is in poor shape but where else are the huge holes? Lets also keep in mind the significant injuries the Skins have incurred (Pierre Garcon, Fred Davis, Brian Orakpo, Adam Carriker, Brandon Meriweather). Many of those injuries were suffered by strong, key players/contributors. Those are quality players so assuming those guys are healthy, where are the gaping holes?
Also, keep in mind that first round draft picks are not guaranteed to be successful. People can't have it both ways. For a long time, everyone complained that we didn't have a franchise QB. We get one and while I'm good with the price paid as are a number of "experts," we went into it understanding that we are giving up high picks.
The biggest holes are at CB, safety, and right tackle. The linebacker play has been unspectacular. The 3-4 requires pressure from the LBs on the opposing QB, and that's not happening. I tend to believe a lot of the D's trouble has to do with scheme though. The coaching seems suspect and nerds to be addressed.
On offense, we can use more quality depth along the o line. We drafted LeRibus in the 3rd round and appaerently he was a reach and is not ready to play.
Again, secondary help is obvious. Also, agree that we could use more pressure. Losing Orakpo hurt in this area. Not only Orakpo's ability to rush but Kerrigan's ability as well because now opposing teams can focus on stopping Kerrigan.
I agree that defensive coaching seems suspect. If the poor play continues, we need to get rid of Haslett.
RT has not been bad. Polumbus has actually played pretty well. Sure, we could use more quality depth at the O line but what team doesn't need help? I just disagree with the blanket statement that we have gaping holes everywhere."
The Deadskins are far from being really relevant in the NFC. Too many teams have more talent and better coaching at this point.
It is nice that they have a franchise QB and a young running back (I also like some of their other running backs), but their receivers are debatable. They have some talent but too many dropped balls and perhaps trouble running patterns. Their O-line needs some work, but most teams could use more talent.
On D the secondary is a major problem, but they have to go back to the 4-3 and they have to replace Haslett. The problem is that they are unlikely to get anyone really good because Shanny never gets anyone good and few established people will come in when Shanny is already on the hot seat.
I fully expect Shanny to be back next year and I fully expect him to be fired after next year. If one were to be truly objective - unless the Deadskins totally turn around this season - it is difficult to make a strong argument for keeping Shanny. Three years in and the D is going to have to be overhauled - not exactly what you want to see in the fourth year of the "Shanaplan."
I think there are a big holes and here is where: offensive line is not very good they can't protect RG3 if he attempts to sit back in the pocket and let the receivers get down field to complete a pass greater than 15 yards which is why you see game planning for a dink and dunk offense and him taking off to a point where he is going to rush for 1000yards. That simply increases his chance for injury. He is a huge investment that requires the greatest insurance and that is why his offensive line improvements should be the number one priority. Receivers are average at best. Garçon is not a number one receiver. Hes a decent number 2 as he has been most of his career in indy whenever he was healthy. The rest of the group is below average. The defense line is unremarkable. It is average also. No real pass rush to speak of. The linebackers are decent but they need a new middle linebacker. They have two corner back spots to revamps. they have two safeties that they need improvements on. I am not convinced that Merriweather is any good or will make any impact. The total count for where they need improvement is 2 corner backs, and two safeties, two receivers, and two offensive line improvements and a new middle line backer and another stout defensive lineman. That's 10 key players they need. I don't see the resources available to address them. You can get away with some deficiencies as every team does but the redskins have to many and too little to fill them.
I would pretty much agree with JSR's points, but I will say that I think they could get away with some talent shortages with some better schemes. The Patriots D has largely stunk the last couple of years, but they still do enough because of their coaching and schemes. They have flipped between the 3-4 and 4-3 and used wide receivers in their secondary. If they can do this and be successful then others can also.
The real problem is that the Deadskins are looking at a major rebuilding job on D that is likely going to take at least 2 seasons.
Another thing to keep in mind is that this is a game of injuries and every team has them. It's the responsibility of the management to build depth to account for it and still find ways to win. The Redskins have key injuries and their record shows that the full in players aren't very good. The Redskins depth at almost every position is meager.
Hold the phone. "The total count for where they need improvement is 2 corner backs, and two safeties, two receivers, and two offensive line improvements and a new middle line backer and another stout defensive lineman."
Sure, we'd all love to stock our respective teams with studs at every position. That would be our dream team.
That said, we have all acknowledged that the secondary needs to be revamped. Meriweather may help but I concede that he may not be the answer. I am largely okay with D. Hall. I have issues with Josh Wilson and Madieu Williams. Unfortunately Tanard Jackson is an idiot because seems like he could have helped.
As far as two WRs. Again, yeah, I would love to have the second coming of Rice and Taylor. Garcon is certainly a quality WR and it's been unfortunate he got hurt in the first game and may not return this season but I'm good with him. I'd like to see more of Morgan and Hankerson before writing them off.
Two offensive line improvements. The O line has been decent. Again, not great but decent. Again, what team doesn't want better O line play? The Puckers and Pears both have given up more sacks than the Skins. Also, our run game has been very good. Again, not a stellar group but one that has been serviceable. They didn't let up a sack against the Panthers until the second half when we were forced to pass and the Panthers D line was allowed to pin their ears back and rush and not worry about a run game.
I mentioned when thinking of the gaping holes to recognize the injuries. The losses of Orakpo and Carriker have hurt the defense entirely. Not just because of their talents but, again, offenses being able to put more focus on Kerrigan and take him out of the equation. I am assuming that these guys come back healthy it will have a significant impact on the pass rush.
As far as a middle LB, Fletcher is still playing at a high level. Sure there needs to be a succession plan for when he retires but he is still going strong.
Again, I'd love to stock up with All Pros. I think we could say that about all of our respective teams. However, the big issue that has hounded us has been the secondary. So the only "gaping" holes I see is in the secondary. That is the only area that has a major deficiency and needs addressing.
As far as depth. JSR, you are correct in that it is incumbent on management to build depth. Again, you can't expect that to happen overnight (refer to my Obama example). Shanny inherited a bunch of crap. He has overhauled the roster and been cognizant of the cap. We are deeper and younger but we are still in the process. Still, I am pleased with the direction of the team as we are finally building.
I will agree with Robs in that I think we do need some better schemes. I have been disappointed with the defensive coaching and I have said that many times this season (and even last season). I don't think Haslett has been putting guys in the best positions to be successful. I have always disliked the zero blitz package. If the defense does not improve, I would expect him to be fired.
As far as too many dropped balls. There was one game (the Steeler game) where it was a major story. However, before that there weren't many dropped balls. In fact, I think there were more dropped balls in that one game than there were in the entire season.
Again, we have been in every game this year other than the Steelers game. I never expected playoffs this year. I would have liked one or two more wins this season but I am largely content at this point in that there is an obvious difference in this year's team and previous years teams'. It is obvious that our secondary is weak and if we had any semblance of a secondary we would be in the thick of the playoff hunt and we wouldn't be having this discussion.
We'll see how the rest of the season pans out.
We're discussing an issue that is not unique to the Skins. Every team has holes. The issue the Skins have is a few inadequate starters and insufficient depth - both products of the Snyderatto era. Shanny is still working his way out of that mess and, in large part, he's vastly improved the quality of the team. The fact that there are still many holes just speaks to the absolute disaster that Vinny left behind.
The biggest concern I have is that there are many teams with similar issues that consistently play at a higher level than the Skins. I firmly believe the coaching is at the root of our problems right now. Haslett is a bum. He's never made any of his defenses exceptional, so I don't expect him to be able to address the problems we have on D. He needs to go. I think if the defense is capable of putting up a better fight, simply through technique and appropriate play calling, this team could be .500 or better right now. Shanny needs to recognize this and address the problem. There's enough talent on the D to at least be mediocre. Right now we're worse than that.
I don't want to throw in the towel on this season yet, but in the upcoming offseason replacing Haslett and drafting or acquiring DBs, MLBs, and an RT would make a world of a difference for this team. If Shanny does that and continues to lose, he'll be next to go.
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